I did, earlier in this thread. R1100 models showed in an independent survey (riders having done >20k Km on them were allowed to participate) showed a 25% GEARBOX BREAKDOWN.

That was around 8 years ago, that percentage has gone way up by now.

The same questionnaire, filled in for the Pan European ST1100, didn't come up with even one gearbox breakdown, nor were there any drive line failures. As you know, the ST1100 gearbox & drive line are very comparable to the faulty bmw (getrag) parts.

Looking at the newer bmw 1200GS model, the pictures becomes even worse. The percentage motorbikes with one or more of the following warranty claims is terrifying:
- rear wheels coming loose,
- leaking drive lines,
- leaking gearboxes,
- exhaust valves breaking off
-"ringantenne" / EWS breakdown

check out!
----------------------------------------

[QUOTE]AliBaba posted: [check out! /QUOTE]

spot the difference.

Apples or oranges?

Are STs being ridden on dirt, gravel roads or offroad?

Whatever your data is, you can't compare bikes with different focus or purpose. Goldwing doesn't compare with Varadero, like XR650R does not compare to CBR600.

By purpose, one sees smooth tarmac miles only, the other may get constantly abused by potholes, gravel, corrugations and dirt. Which do you think lasts longer mileage- or age wise?

And your data source is...? Your own "questionary"?

the bmw questionnaire was on the R1100RT, that in fact showed the 25% gearbox failure rate
At that time it was the best selling bike in the country.
Direct competitor to the ST1100.

The article on the R1100GS was equally shocking, but I don't have that particular one any more, so I can't quote exact percentages.


A "quality" poll on the dutch GS club site, shows that only 48% of 1200GS owners have had no technical problems/ warranty claims at all.
20% of respondents have had severe probs... Pictures of broken off exhaust valves are particularly hot at the moment.

Post links first please.

Getrag info on 1100 transmissions can be found here. No-one there says about your very nice'n'round number 25% of failures. Factory should have that kind of info, and if it was so it'd be a media-wide scandal if every 4th bike had a blown transmission on low mileages through out it's production years IMO.

I am not going to post you copyrighted publications. your dogma is simply not worth it.


the bmw GS club holland R1200GS quality poll:
BMW GS Club Nederland :: Bekijk onderwerp - 1200GS(-A) kwaliteits poll

please note the drive line failures in the postings.



too hot exhaust valves?
BMW GS Club Nederland :: Bekijk onderwerp - Het blijft kwakkelen...

Looks like even the Police are leaving BMW!

Bikes in the Fast Lane - Daily Motorcycle News

(but I'm sure this publication are lying, right Margus? )


I wonder how the Vstrom won that Motorad Alps challenge if it is so
bad?

BTW, Suzuki's problems with the early Vstorm are minor compared to the very long history of BMW problems and then denial by BMW AG.

Should I post some history lessons from dealers who have published the truth about how BMW's bikes and how they do business?


Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

So this proves the point, Japanese bikes aren't fault free eighter.


Apparently the guys complainig let the job be done by a Suzuki delaer, dealer induced faults then?

So you have first hand experience to prove it outlasts any Beemer if both are ridden similarly and maintained similarly?


Anyways, you probably already guess where I'm aiming:

What news do we mostly hear? It's the bad news that make the news!

In the Bike magazine reliability survey BMW scored 90%, meaning averagely 9 bikes out of 10 have been reliable and problem-free. Japanese makers scored similar results. Thus near 10% problem (big or small) rates on each of them.

So if the production number of R1200GS is now well over 100,000 bikes, it's the most produced one big trailie bike model in history. You'd need at least over 1000 reports of broken final drives to make up the 1% of failures, 10,000 reports to make that 10% failure. R1200GS has been in producion for 4 years - with Mollydog's logic to obtain data from forums then ADVrider should have at least 2 broken drive shaft threads per day to make up only 1% failure rate, that's over 14 broken FD reports per week. 140 FD reports to make the "average" 10% rate when we look at the reliabiity survey data. Or over 25,000 thousand broken bikes - 140 breakdown reports per week to make that catastrophic 25% failure rate quote here. That's 17 breakdown reports per day - internet should have overfilled with bitter reports.

Yah, while I'm pretty sure earlier R1200GSes had their own teething problems just like Japanese cousinsins (like early V-Strom example, or any other), but still as is an overall picture it's over-emphasized if you count the production numbers.

I'm not a owner of R1200GS, but with the analogy posted above I'd say we, very probably, look at the "sauer-grapes" situation purely thanks to exceptionally large volume of production numbers per 1 model of bike. Happy R1200GS owners don't report their good experiences into forums, but un-happy owners most certainly will report. So count the bad numbers, divide it with production numbers and prove me wrong.

This is probably the first post in this forum where you haven't lied and found information source other than village gossip. But don't think this has made up the rest of your bashing lies or false facts Mollydog

Never heard of it but BMW won the Dark Dog Tour, and they've sold over 100,000 R1200GSes already, so it can't be that bad eithter? I though you were supposed to talk about the big famous competitions only? I haven't seen any V-Stroms on podium spots on Erzberg or Pikes Peak.

I see you still haven't got my point. Never said V-Strom is bad (not crap, as you say), just using your very own analogy example to demonstrate how you bash BMWs in the same way, see yourself through mirror? (I've never owned V-Strom and I bash it with sauer-grapes examples - feels "good" to hear it as a V-Strom owner eh? )

It's always just sooo easy to bash. Especially if you haven't owned one


I don't think the V-Strom owners who had faulty bikes agree with you. If I may use your own analogy, while I haven't owned one myself: it's the COMMON KNOWLEDGE among V-Strom owners the early bikes will most certanly have clutch blown, throttle bodies vibrated loose already from factory, faulty EFIs or even ECUs and other silly problems unheard of on other makers, all the electricity fault reflect my own Suzuki ownership experience in the past While Suzuki hasn't fixed the problems on many bikes or denied the problem. See the links I posted.

You can always laugh and you're always free to do it, but don't forget to divide everything with production numbers, then compare to other bikes statistics numbers obtained in identical unbiased way to compile the real picture. We all look for truth out here.

Dogma - usage tends to carry a pejorative connotation—referring to concepts as being "established" only according to a particular point of view, and thus one of doubtful foundation.

So you tell me, which is more probable: the dogma coming coming from people who have never owned the product or those who've owned the product?

Or are you afraid to publish copyrighted publications? (in fact those would be the only sources I'd trust, as I've already mentioned before - it's only the credible sources we can rely on, not forum examples)


Unfortunately I don't understand Duch . Would be interesting to read the thoughts and discussions posted there.

Many similar polls have been posted in UKGSer and ADVrider that I've kept my eye constantly on, but certainly nowhere near 25% mark failures as you quoted. So would be very interesting to know how they obtain their rates.

Data? Did someone say data? As I've said over and over, IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE, especially among BMW owners.

Lets start with this one:

BMW FD Failure List

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

So you found documentation on four FD-errors on 1200GS :-)

Nice job, they have sold more then 100.000 1200GS…

The discussion seems to have morphed to be about BMW in general, not the GS. Here's another tid bit. (shhhh .... more lies)
Read a few pages in if you have the patience. This is just one of hundreds of owners forums with reports on this.

MCN (US version) just published a pretty damning article on FD failures too.
But of course, they're liars and have never owned BMW and must be paid by the "Japs" to Bash! Right?

Motorcycle Consumer News, F/D Failure - BMW Luxury Touring Community

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Sorry Mollydog, I don’t know anything about the LT and I stay away from discussions where I don’t have first-hand experience.