Ron, Matt, Dave, etc.

I managed to get a few minutes of a solicitors time for free and he came up with pretty much the same advice as Matt has given. He did say that in the letter I should set out my requirements with a reasonable timetable. Whilst neither he nor I are particularly knowledgeable about shipping he did seem to think that the end of the month would be a suitable deadline, especially considering things like customs being outside of their control. I would rather see my bike sooner but I should have taken this step some time ago - as far as I'm concerned they've had their last chance but I haven't done it in writing.

The company I hold responsible is a UK one. This is the company that I made original enquiries with and all communications have gone through them - the deal to ship my bike from US to UK was between them and me. They have chosen to use US agents to assist in this but as far as I have ever been concerned it has been the UK company that I engaged to d this and they agreed to do so. I realise that by not naming the company it may seem that I'm being a bit mysterious about the whole business but I don;t want to mess things up - this is one of the things I'll discuss with the solicitor. Also it's the only card I've got!

I must admit I've probably been using the wrong terminology such as shippers, agents, freight forwarders, etc. because I don't have much experience in such matters. However since the agreement was between me and a UK company (who chose to then enlist / subcontract to other companies) the contract falls under UK legislation.

Since it's the weekend I've decided to write a draft letter but before posting it wait and see what the outcome of any further solicitors advice on Monday may be. If the end of the month is considered a suitable deadline then the day lost here is not significant. I realise solicitors will be expensive but I may need someone to act on my behalf since I am supposed to be going overseas at the end of the month or thereabouts.

The latest, more senior, person that I've spoken with at the UK company has said he will keep me informed on a daily basis. He seemed genuinely embarrassed by the whole affair but that doesn't do me much good.

I didn't ask him about proof of the bike being where he says it is but I shall email him shortly with that particular request. To allow for time differences, etc. I guess a deadline of Tuesday morning here in the UK would be appropriate. I'm thinking a couple of digital photos emailed to me would provide at least some sign that the bike is where it is supposed to be. I'm probably trying to avoid thinking about the idea of my bike and all the stuff that was with it having been stolen or lost. Also I'm not certain what I'd do if they failed to provide the evidence - I agree that I'd have to report it as stolen but I can't say I'm keen on trying to explain the somewhat confused situation to police around the world.

Other than drafting a letter I'll continue to organise the email communications I've had since I've been told that these can reinforce and expand upon the oral contract between me and the company. I've also started making a list of all the bits on the bike and stuff that was with it. Not much fun.

Thanks for everyone's advice so far - it's been quite re-assuring to know that I'm not just being a whinging pom.

The deadline I'd set for photos or other proof of my bike passed about an hour ago so I thought I'd fill in the next bit of the story. I received an email sent a few minutes before the deadline, apparently the response from the US agent was:

"The motorcycle has been crated and I can't take pictures of it."

Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Hi Doug,

At least they are not ignoring you and realise you are taking the kind of action which means they need to pull their finger out. Having the bike in a crate is progress in a way. Ask for copies of all documentation at this stage.

Have they finally given a timetable for getting the bike back to you? Write to the agent to inform of action that you will take if the bike is not back by the date promised. I would mention that you are having to rent a bike/car in the interim and that you will be reclaiming the costs. Have you paid these mongrels any money yet?

I'm with you in spirit on this one - feeling pretty angry about the whole situation.

matt

Keep going Doug!

Pin that UK guy to his promise to keep you informed, daily.
As you are now, I would concentrate on the UK side of things, all as per the advice you have received - that's where you can keep the pressure on most easily and it is the UK "Agents" job to sort out the US side of things.

__________________
Dave

Sounds like a right nightmare mate, I hope it all works out and you get your bike back.

It does sound like its gone missing and they are just stalling though.




Good luck!

__________________
"Whats in that thing??", An R1 owner said.

You have more leverage than you think.

1. You have receipt that the bike is in their hands and is intended for shipment.

2. You have email confirmation that they acknowledge their are attempting to ship the bike, which essentially is an admission on responsibility to fulfill the obligation of shipping your bike...although a contract would be firmer proof of this obligation...
How you position questions in order to gain their admissions currently will help you.

Keep at it and document over email you conversations over the phone...document...document...document. It will pay off...

__________________
edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com

Again thanks to everyone for their advice. Whilst there's been several good suggestions regarding the letter that needs to go to shipping agent I've decided to ask a solicitor to write it for me. There are several reasons for me doing it this way, mainly because I don't want to make a mess of it but also it looks like it may have to turn into a claim, which I really don't want to mess up so thought it best to get a solicitor involved sooner rather than later. It seems a bit of a cop out (especially after all the advice that's been posted) I just want to try and keep things simple, for me at least, and not make any mistakes.

The essence of the letter will be as suggested by Matt, Walkabout and others. Essentially setting out a deadline for the bike to be returned and demanding a written timetable of events for that to occur. It is giving them a second (or third, or fourth, etc.) chance but the main thing I'm after is my bike back, a week or so from now is almost negligible compared to the time I've waited so far (I feel). Of course if the bike has gone missing then it all becomes even more unpleasant. I must admit to feeling uneasy about the "motorcycle has been crated" excuse for not providing photos.

I forgot to ask the solicitor whether I could reveal the name of the UK agents involved, so I'll have to keep quiet on that one for the time being.

But yes, I'm definitely making notes of everything that goes on, including printing out all emails, etc. just in case the computer goes wrong.

There's not much more I can say at the moment. Have to wait and see how things progress. Does anyone know roughly how long it takes for a returning bike to get through UK Customs? Asking more out of curiosity than necessity but it would be nice to have a date to look forward to for the return of my bike (fingers crossed).

When you FINALLY get possession of your property, I would make sure you have a camera Handy. take Pic's as you Un-crate and then you are in a position to sue for any damage that has or may have been done since it was left with them.
I'm sure you must have Pic's of the bike as it was on your trip to back up proof of condition before they took possession of it....

On the advice of your Solicitor I would also try to see if you can get a reimbursement of costs of shipping or some compensation for the messing around and being without your Bike for so long, although I am sure your Solicitor has already covered this?

Martyn

If I do get my bike back then I shall be inspecting it thoroughly before signing anything to say I've received in good condition, or if they insist I'll put something along the lines of "under duress, goods uninspected". Better check that I get the correct legal term. And yes, it's lucky that I happened to take a few photos of the bike only a couple of days before dropping it off at the shippers.


The solicitor and I did discuss this. For the time being nothing is set in stone, a lot depends on how things go over the next few days.

Having been promised that he'd keep me informed I found out today that he's left the country. OK, I can understand that sometimes personal matters crop up that you have to attend (I don't know if this is the case or not) but I'd've appreciated one of his colleagues letting me know directly rather than indirectly.

The way I found out was that I received a call from one of the other people there asking if I'd received the replacement V5 - but a few hours earlier I'd emailed the "keep me informed" guy saying that I had. I asked about the discrepancy and was told about the other guy having gone away.

Anyway they apparently need to send the original of the replacement V5 to the US agents. I think I'll write out a receipt for when it's picked up. Perhaps I should apply for another duplicate now?

Whilst I've said thanks for advice a few times (and it's always read) I must also say thanks for all the encouragement received and the chance to vent some steam every now and again!

Don't Worry Doug.....we will all send our Bills for "Collective Therapy" to your Shipping Agents insurers!

But seriously, it is sometimes the best thing that you can just 'let off some steam' and get some serious & maybe not so serious feedback to help your sanity.

regards

Martyn & I am sure, everyone else who reads this!

Here I'd copy it .. and get a Justice of the Peace to certify it ...

Vent away mate .. I'd have a fair old pressure built up by now too.

__________________
---
Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S

How long to get the bike out of customs? I flew my bike back from Bogota, Colombia with Martinair into Stanstead.

The bike never arrived on the Friday it was scheduled to and instead arrived on Saturday morning. I was keen to get the bike to get to the HU meeting in Derbyshire - a good way to finish the trip. Except Saturday is not convenient for the shipping handlers. The person with the necessary rubber stamp does not work on Saturday. After arriving at 8am, I managed to get the bike reassembled and was on the road at 3pm. Being a UK registered bike helped but overall it was a dreadful experience.

The weekend is not the right day to go and fetch it, however beware expensive storage fees at these cargo warehouses.

Good plan to get the letter out. I am sure that will have a rapid effect.

All the best to you Doug.

Matt

Oh, that's quite a lot quicker than I was expecting. I'd been told that it would be about a week (from arrival) to get it back into the UK. Maybe they were suggesting Customs could take up to a week (similar to what I'd experienced going to the US). The original agreement was that the shippers would sort out all Customs and paperwork, etc.. This was one of the things I found attractive since it was, effectively, a package deal.

The original deal I had with the shippers was that I would collect it from their warehouse as soon as it was available but they have since offered to deliver it to me, an offer I think I'll take them up on.

When they deliver it, don't let them leave till you have inspected every centimetre of it. Just as you would have to go round a hire car with the hire company when you return it, make them go round the bike with you and sign for any damage/ dead battery/ etc
If you can, also have your Solicitor or some other reliable witness present with a camera.
Put it to the company ( via your Solicitor) that also it was a taxed, Mot'd, running bike when they got their hands on it..... and you want to make sure it is in the same condition now...... DO NOT let them just dump it and run. once it is out of their hands they can ( and probably will) say any damage/ faults was your fault. I am not trying to overstress you but tread carefully with these 'nice people'.



Martyn