Hello All

I am trying to make some life decisions,and one of them is long term vehicle use for trips in Europe and africa.

I can ship my vehicle from canada to europe, but I wont be able to make the the entire trip in one shot,that is to say,I would use the vehicle for a period of time in europe, then perhaps a year later or so start by taking a trip to morocco ,then perhaps back to europe and so on.

Everything I have read tells me this is a problem,with Eu laws ect, though I do have a place to store the vehicle in doors in Portugal for years if required.(I hold dual citizenship,but I reside in Canada) and only get back to europe for 2 to 4 weeks at a time.

Or I can purchase a vehicle in Portugal( i have a portugeuse citzenship card and fiscal number ect), and that makes it much easier, but way more expensive.

Is it possible to leave my canadian (quebec) registered vehicle in europe and only ship it back in say 5 years? It would be properly registered,insured(we dont have any annual MOT's here) in quebec for the entire duration of time abroad.

and

does that make any sense to do so?

is it legal? ( know I would not be able to use it/do this, if I was going to live there permanently or exceeding a certain amount of time)

but as a fly in traveller,can that work?

It is only due to knowing what I do already have, vs the buying of something totally unknown to me (in terms of condition).

roadtax and insurance, MOT, ect in portugal is cheap (it would be an older vehicle I would purchase) but the 4x4's in portugal are silly expensive even with tons of millage and 30 plus years on them.

Wondering what folks who do multi year trips do in this instance.

Cheers,

Paul

Hi Paul,
It is actually illegal to keep your Canadian registered bike in the EU for more than six months but some do without a problem if you are only using it occasionally and don't use it in the same area too much where it might draw the attention of the law. If it was me I would buy a bike locally to save the cost of shipping/flying it over and I am not sure about the cost of insuring a Canadian registered bike in comparison with a locally bought one but I expect the Canadian one will be higher and I don't think you can get comprehensive if you want it.

Much better to buy in EU.
UK is quite cheap to buy a Land Cruiser.
EU countries more expensive.
As long as your happy enough with a RHD in EU, then thats what I would do.

vette

Same issue,

bringing a car from UK or other EU state, is also a problem, perhaps even worse if I want to leave it behind, not to mention I have to go back to the UK for an MOT,that becomes a constant back and forth from Portugal to the UK for no benefit.

I would use Portugal as my base, as I have secure indoor storage for no cost, that is why my choices (as far as I am aware ) would be, ship a car from my home country (canada) or buy one and keep it in my native country (portugal) which is quite close to the african continent,either way Portugal would be the "home" port for that part of the trip start and finish.

Cheers,

Paul

I would plan on buying a vehicle registered in the country you would consider your base in Europe - since you have Portuguese citizenship this would presumably be Portugal, I assume. Now, you could buy a vehicle elsewhere in the EU and use it whenever you're travelling. Either way if you're travelling outside the country of registration you would have to be able to demonstrate that you're visiting and not resident since you're not permitted to retain a foreign-registered vehicle for more than six months as a resident. Buying outside the EU would probably raise more concerns and inconvenience.

Shipping the Canadian vehicle to Europe will have a significant cost; if you buy a European vehicle it can be this amount more than the cost of a Canadian vehicle and you break even.

You could, of course, take the Canadian vehicle to Europe and register it there, as long as you can meet the relevant requirements. I have done this with a Canadian vehicle which I shipped and registered in the UK (and which is now back in Canada).

Lastly, bear in mind that many vehicles sold in Canada are not particularly appropriate for much of Europe. Not so much in terms of lighting regulations etc., which can be met with a few modifications, but in terms of more basic aspects. Without knowing what vehicle you have in Quebec, obviously I can't comment on specifics, however diesel engines are now not permitted in some cities (and the list is growing), big pick-ups are too big for most car parks in Europe, finding spares and getting maintenance for many North American vehicles can be a challenge, even simple things like finding replacement tyres can be a problem.

Depends on the country. Here in Estonia you can keep a foreign-plated vehicle in the country for a year before you have to leave Schengen to reset.

If that is your plan, then it's easier to just buy a vehicle with EU plates.

UK is a third country now, like Morocco or Belarus.

Hello All

Thank you for the replies,

I still need to do some calculating to see what its worthwhile doing.
My vehicle would actually be a 1991 JDM Toyota 4 Runner( Hilux SUV),which though it is RHD (I have had RHD cars in LHD counties for years,not as big a problem as some folks make out) I have had in Canada for years (not driven in salt) with very low millage and a very simple diesel motor. I would send over my diesel 60 series Land cruiser(also RHD), but I would miss it too much ,

The car cost is negligible on the 4 runner(bought and paid for many years ago), it runs well and has A/C ect, and finding parts anywhere in Europe or Africa should be easier as it is Hilux based (I have more problems in Canada with that,but the internet is a wonderful thing is it not!).

I need to find out if I can have my insurance cover it (liability only,same as I have here already) while it is is Europe, in Africa I would simply purchase the required local coverage at the borders.

The registration would remain in Quebec, there is no annual MOT here(this greatly simplifies things), and I can suspend the registration for up to 364 days per year, so I would only activate the registration when needed and the car would be stored in doors and out of sight unless I was using it while in Europe,same with insurance(from Canada if possible).

Again, this is out loud thinking and trying to get feedback from other who may have done the same,when I read what folks have done with motorcycles,the rules are the same,yet there are many posts suggesting what I am proposing here.

I dont think I will be going through countries requiring a CDP, though that can be done if required,and the point is not to keep the car there forever, but simply use a car I know well,has no real cost to me (other than shipping back and forth,which is much less than buying a comparable vehicle in Portugal),

Importing it to Portugal is out of the question (these guys will charge you an arm and a leg), I looked at that for my mom, (who does not drive a manual car,and we have 95% automatics here in North America), its almost cheaper to buy her a new car there, than "importing" a very used one from here or even elsewhere in the EU (very protectionist).

I still have to look into the insurance,and once that is solved I will look at the sums and see what we will do.

Buying elsewhere in the EU is not simple, with no residency it is a problem,with both registration and insurance (I spoke with someone from Quebec who did it in France,and they ended up having to find a long lost aunty,and the insurance was still a nightmare)

I am not averse to buying in Portugal, I already have an old Fiat 128 that I keep over there,but getting it through MOT is always a pain(and its very clean) but due its age ,I dont have to pay any roadtax, and insurance is about 50 euro/year (as a classic),which is why I keep it,some years it only goes from the MOT and back to the garage,but it is perfectly usable and my daily driver when I am over there for a few weeks at a time.(sucks not to have A/C though)

Thanks again for you inputs,they are welcome and useful

Cheers,

Paul

Insurance is not difficult at all, although your options are quite limited and will sometimes shift. Look elsewhere on this forum for information about the couple of current possibilities (one of whom posts here frequently). I'm not sure why you're still uncertain about this.

You can buy your insurance per need from a distance, but Canadian companies don't work.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Hi Paul:

I have left my Canadian-plated motorcycle in Europe for many years.

Having said that, though, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to ship a Canadian automobile or light truck over to Europe.

Motorcycles tend to be highly personalized vehicles (meaning, the owner makes many small modifications after buying it), unless your light truck has been extensively modified into a camping vehicle or similar, there's no great benefit to shipping the truck over.

You have Portuguese citizenship, right of residence in the EC, & presumably speak Portuguese - one of the reasons that moto riders from outside Europe ship their bikes into Europe is because they can't easily purchase, register, and insure a locally bought bike. You don't face any of those problems.

You are, however, at greater risk of being punished if the Portuguese authorities find out that you, a citizen & putative resident, have smuggled a vehicle into Portugal and have avoided paying import duties and taxes by representing it as being a tourist vehicle. That's really what your proposal boils down to.

At least if a non-EC citizen and non-EC resident gets caught keeping their tourist vehicle in the EC for more than the 6 months permitted, that person will probably just get reprimanded and told to export the vehicle, "now".

I once loaned my Canadian-plated bike to a friend of mine, a citizen and resident of the EC, to use for a weekend. He got stopped in a spot check, and had to pay a fine equal to double the import duty on my motorcycle! That was over 1,000 Euros, and that took place over 10 years ago.

The whole idea behind the permission to temporarily import a vehicle that is a legitimate "tourist vehicle" into the EC is to allow legitimate "tourists" to tour around using their own vehicle. Because of your citizenship, your entitlement to residence, the fact that you already own a EC-registered vehicle, you are not a tourist. If caught, you would be considered to be a smuggler / tax evader, plain and simple.

I don't think it's worth the risk, especially considering how carefully you would be scrutinized by Customs authorities in the future whenever you entered the EC.

Michael

Hi Paul,

My company provides shipping of vehicles, storage, insurance (we're insurance broker) for over landing community.

Looking at your case, best thing would be to ship your Canadian plated Landcruiser, but keep in mind that getting any kind of third party liability insurance in Europe you need to keep your minimum coverage running in Canada as it's tied to the mot and registration.

We're not covering any type of vehicle or motorcycle that does not have valid registration documents.

In case you want to get more info on our insurance services for 4x4 and expedition vehicles you can check Lobagola MotoTours | expedition off road tours, insurance, storage, freight , PM me here or email us: info@lobagola-mototours.com

Let me know if you have any other questions.

BR
Dooby

__________________
Bike purchase, storage, expedition tours / insurance, health & repatriation, transport, rally training
www.lobagola-mototours.com/ www.lobagola-insurance.com/

Thank you Dooby

We'll be in touch for next year.

Cheers,

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks, if you need any more in the meantime just PM me.

BR
Dooby

__________________
Bike purchase, storage, expedition tours / insurance, health & repatriation, transport, rally training
www.lobagola-mototours.com/ www.lobagola-insurance.com/