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Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

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Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



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  #1  
Old 21 Feb 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanhall View Post
Dear All,

we need to fill in the following form:

EUROPA - E-mail

if say at least 30 of us get off our proverbial rear ends and do this, they might prod the R.A.C. with a big heavy stick and and we could get a cheaper carnet! .

the more people that winge and moan to them the better, also write to your MEP! Remember we get to vote the min or out again soon and this makes them listen, as they get jumpy near election time!

may the force be with us all on this one!
I am not sure that the EU is the right party to complain to.

We would need to give evidence of the RAC directly requesting the ADAC to not issue carnets for UK vehicles (I think I have an email from the ADAC which admits this), or other mis-conduct. Surely the FIA / AIT should be the ones to hear it?

Otherwise, it's just a case of paying more for the 'pleasure' of living in the UK. For example, the Dutch pay absurd sums for road tax on large-engined vehicles, but I doubt a complaint to the EU over that would get anywhere.
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  #2  
Old 21 Feb 2014
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Originally Posted by danielsprague View Post
I am not sure that the EU is the right party to complain to.

We would need to give evidence of the RAC directly requesting the ADAC to not issue carnets for UK vehicles (I think I have an email from the ADAC which admits this), or other mis-conduct. Surely the FIA / AIT should be the ones to hear it?

Otherwise, it's just a case of paying more for the 'pleasure' of living in the UK. For example, the Dutch pay absurd sums for road tax on large-engined vehicles, but I doubt a complaint to the EU over that would get anywhere.
The EU is the right forum for competition legislation and enforcement, and is is easily arguable that the R.A.C. is behaving in a anti competitive manor! where as Tax is entirely up to the state you live in.

Recently sky lost it's case against a pub landlord as she bought her premier league coverage from Grease.

This is a similar thing.

What ever you do, write to your MEP or EU compatition comission or pressure group. DO SOMETHING otherwise we will royally taken over the barrel time after time!
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  #3  
Old 21 Feb 2014
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Actually, you can get an get a CDP for a UK reg vehicle from the ADAC in Germany, all you need is a letter from the RAC in UK, saying that they have no objection !
Not something they are inclined to do very often, for obvious reasons, but it has been known !

UB.
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Old 21 Feb 2014
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Originally Posted by Uselessbaba View Post
Actually, you can get an get a CDP for a UK reg vehicle from the ADAC in Germany, all you need is a letter from the RAC in UK, saying that they have no objection !
Not something they are inclined to do very often, for obvious reasons, but it has been known !

UB.
Not any more unfortunately.

The ADAC told me this month that they will no longer issue it to a UK vehicle, even for a German citizen.

The RAC also told me this month that they would give permission to the ADAC only in 'exceptional' reasons. Being a German national and ADAC member not being one! Academic anyhow in light of what the ADAC told me.

So we are in the clutches of the RAC's racketeering.
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Old 22 Feb 2014
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Well, danielsprague, that is curious, because I can tell you for a fact that the ADAC were issuing CDP for UK reg vehicles as recently as Sep 2013, as I know of people who (with a letter of no objection from RAC) got one !
They, too, were initiallt refused and told it was no longer possible, but persisted and were eventually successful.


Out of interest, who did you speak to at the RAC that told you this ?

UB.
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Old 22 Feb 2014
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From Mischa Schueller, at the ADAC in Munich, on 06-02-2014, a few hours after sending my mail to them. (I had a string of carnets from them between 2007 and 2010):

Dear Mr. Sprague,

thank you for your e-mail.

The competence of carnet-issuing does not refer to the nationality of the applicant, but to the country of vehicle-registration.

As we had a lot of trouble giving British citizens the recommednation to ask for a non-objection at RAC, there is really no way neither to issue a Carnet de Passages for a UK-registered vehicles nor to give a recommendation to ask at RAC for a "non-objection".

It is simply not possible for us to issue a Carnet de Passages for British-registered vehicles.

A big Sorry for not being able to serve you with this matter, but that's the way it is handled.

Kind regards from Munich,


And from a Jake Ward 10-02-2014, RAC Carnets, four days after I sent them an enquiry:

Dear Mr Sprague,



Apologies for the late response.




In line with the Carnet Convention, all CPD guaranteeing and issuing associations of the AIT and FIA are bound by a multilateral Guarantee Agreement which sets down all conditions for the guarantee and issue of Carnets de Passages en Douane.



We have made a decision as the issuing club for the UK, and to ensure we are following the guidelines of the agreement that we will now only provide permission for other clubs to issue Carnets on our behalf in exceptional circumstances. An example of an exceptional request could be; an application being part of an overall rally application the other club is issuing Carnets for where it makes sense that they issue all of the Carnets required for the rally.





Yours sincerely,

Would be very keen to hear if you know a way round this!
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Old 22 Feb 2014
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'In line with the Carnet Convention, all CPD guaranteeing and issuing associations of the AIT and FIA are bound by a multilateral Guarantee Agreement which sets down all conditions for the guarantee and issue of Carnets de Passages en Douane.'

...is meaningless waffle, and has no connection to the issue in question.

I just decided to respond to Mr Ward at the RAC. I wonder if I will receive a response to the email which I have copied below:

Dear Mr Ward.

Thank you for your response. Seeing that the RAC makes it several times more expensive to obtain an identical document for the same vehicle when compared with the ADAC, please reassure me as to the legal basis of this situation.

Specifically, could you please send me a copy of the Carnet Convention, or at least refer me to the exact location in said Convention, which relates to the national issuing organisation having exclusive rights to issue a CDP to vehicles registered in that country, and / or to any other section which would preclude the ADAC, or any other issuing organisation, from issuing a CDP for a UK registered vehicle.

Yours sincerely
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