Words Fail me that some of you out there are telling this young man to go ahead and break the law. More importantly he's going to risk his own and other peoples lives en-route! I can only assume from this that those of you who think he should ignore the law like this have a criminal record / Poor Driving History themselves...

The UK Police now have powers to sieze vehicles which are being used without insurance or licence. Not only will he lose his bike but he will also get at least 8 points on his licence and a huge fine of about £700.

Your documents WILL BE INSPECTED when you arrive in EACH European country as the bike will need importing or a carnet. Do you really think you can "pull the wool over their ears" by telling them you have forgotten your docs? Get real... Police forces throughout Europe are all linked closely these days. Your driving record AND Insurance Company Record can be checked in a few minutes using a PC link to DVLA.

I don't doubt you stand a chance of getting away with it until you reach Europe though...

Just go and pass your bike test like the rest of us or do it on a 125cc. I know someone who did that trip on a Honda C90! Others do it on 125 Trail Bikes which are fun little things...

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Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

Neil, have you ridden through India? He said he had and if he has, he's quite capable of riding anywhere in the world. He didn't say he was going to get a Hayabusa and sneak into GP.

Small bikes might be great to learn on, but the traffic in India might be the worst in the world and the school of hard knocks is just as well. I met an ex-Indian Army Major who said traffic was worse in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Both of which Londonman would have to ride through.

You said, "I can't speak for anyone else but I personally don't want idiots who haven't passed their full bike test riding on the same roads as ME and my family" which makes me wonder if you've done any riding outside of the UK. You can't even get a 125 roadbike in the US. Even finding a 250 is hard and the salesmen try to talk you out of them. I wasn't kidding when I said a 600cc bike is considered by 90% of American motorcyclists a girl's bike. Motorcyclists are quite full of useless machismo much of the time.

I thought a carnet wasn't needed for the EU. Do they stop you at each EU border crossing to check your paperwork? I don't know. I haven't been there yet.

If Londonman wants to make the attempt, why not? He knows the risk when he gets to EU. As the cliche goes, you only live once and no one gets out of here alive.

As for me, I love small bikes. If I wasn't on an old POS 250 and wanted something newer and more dependable, I'd follow Nigel Marx' advice and do it on a Japanese 185cc sheep bike with a reinforced frame. He nearly tempted me into selling my Ducati when I was at his house looking at the sheep bikes. The side stand on each side, and the clutch and cable locks, are strokes of genius. But there's no way I can buy one in California and I like riding with California plates. Besides, I want a girder Norton single as my next bike.

-Dave

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Not Ted Simon since 1970!
http://nokilli.com/rtw

I wouldn't normally agree with Neil, but this time he is right.... Its got absolutely nothing to do with riding ability, as I would agree that an Enfield is likely to be perfectly manageable given his experience. But the legal and insurance implications make no sense - every time you cross a border, and every time he gets stopped by the police, he will be running a significant risk of being arrested, or having the bike confiscated - or both.

And he will get stopped - every cop who has never seen a Nepali plate before is going to pull him at the slightest excuse, and I doubt that he will get as far as the EU before that happens. If he does, that first EU border post is going to take a real close look at a beaten up Nepali Enfield. They might well miss his licensing deficiency because they tend to focus on the bike papers, but its a big risk.

And if he gets involved in any sort of accident he will be in deep shit. The police will definitely spot the licence problem then !

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Honda CBR 1100 XX, Yamaha XTZ 660, Harris Special

Driving without a license, nullifies whatever insurance you have. This means if you have an accident (and in many foreign countries, if a westerner is involved, he is automatically to blame) you might have to pay 100.000£ or more, OR go to jail to sit that amount of money off!

Good luck with your project, have fun.

Why not a tuktuk ? Some danish guys drove one from Bangkok to Denmark 18.000km.
Tuktuk - fra Bangkok til Aarhus

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Poul
May you enjoy peace and good health !

Neil, I'm not condoning the idea of riding without a licence but this simply isn't true. Once in the EU, e.g. Greece nobody anywhere will ask for any bike documents even at Dover. At most other borders, the customs officials want to see a carnet and some form of insurance (which can be bought if you don't have it) but practically never a driving licence.

The idea that unusual plates are pulled over by police is also incorrect (Wheelspin). I've done thousands of kilometres on bikes with Arabic words & numbers on them over several years and NEVER been pulled over; not in the UK, the EU or anywhere else.

I attribute this to the fact that police generally like bike riders and like to cut us some slack. For that reason, I hope Londonman doesn't abuse the goodwill that's out there and gets his licence.
Stephan
PS Neil, isn't it "eyes" not "ears" - unless it's cold?

Thanks for the very valuable advice everyone. I think I might do this trip next year instead because of the complications involved in the paperwork.

I dont doubt my own motorcycle riding abilities but the hassle of the border-checks might be too much.

I'm going India anyway though. I might rent an Enfield (thanks for the link) or a Japanese bike.

Anyone know if you can buy and then ship over powerful Japanese bikes (say about 500cc) from India? Most websites don't seem to advertise bikes above 125cc.

thanks

Bikes in India are small, mostly for fuel efficiency I think. Mostly 125 and 150s with the occasional 180. I was warned that riding a "large" bike, and they were indicating the 180, could lead to problems finding a mechanic if it broke down outside a big city.

I saw a large Yamaha in a dealership but I didn't ask how much it cost. I'm sure with the huge import tax (180%) it was plenty. There's a Ducati dealership in Mumbai, so you can always pick up a couple of those. Indian roads are perfect for high speed. That's why there's the Ferraris and McLaren in Delhi. Those cars are actually there. I have no idea if there's a road where it'd be safe to go over 80k since most roads are hectic at 30k.

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Not Ted Simon since 1970!
http://nokilli.com/rtw

I think most of the responses on this thread have missed the real issues you wanted to address, being whether it is still possible to take an Indian registered bike across borders. I would personally be very interested to know if the situation has changed and it is now possible, but unfortunately cant help you on this point.

We now seem to have got stuck on the issue of whether it is right or wrong to actually ride a larger bike on your licence. In my view your licence restriction is not likely to be a major issue at all, although it would certainly make things easier if you had an unrestricted licence.

I agree strongly with Stephano on this point about the likelihood of your licence being checked.

At the border crossings before you enter the EU the only documents likely to be checked are your passport, bike registration papers, insurance and either your temporary import permit/carnet. It is exceedingly rare for a border official to ever check a licence document. Even in the very rare circumstance that a border official did check your licence, I really doubt that they would identify that your licence is subject to any restrictions.

Further your licence is only likely to be checked by the police in the EU if you have commited a traffic infringement, so provided you drive sensibly within the legal speed limit (is it even possible for an Enfield to break the speed limit????), I doubt you will have problems.

The next thorny issue raised is whether your insurance will be invalidated by only having a provisional licence. I think we are confusing the policy restrictions that a UK based insurer would impose (ie you must have full licence) with the restrictions of the local 3rd party insurance you will be forced to buy at the border before you arrive in the EU. 3rd party insurance is normally sold at borders by some bored agent without any discussion as to the policy restrictions. The only reason you actually buy it is because either a border official insists on it, or to avoid having to pay bribes if you are stopped without it. Trying to make a claim on this type of local 3rd party insurance is virtually impossible anyway, irrespective of your type of licence. If you have an accident and are at fault, you would generally have to make some form of payment to the local involved in the accident, irrespective if you have acquired 3rd party insurance for that country.

Therefore the whole point about your insurance being invalid due to licencing restrictions is completely irrelevant in the developing world.

The situation does change when you enter the EU and then you would need to arrange a Green Card. Then any restrictions on the policy would be imposed by the relevant issuer. One thing you could try is to buy 3rd party insurance when you enter Turkey and then apply for the Turkish insurer to provide you with a Green Card for the rest of Europe. This may avoid the issue about having a limit on your licence as the Turkish insurer may not impose any restrictions.

The key message is dont let this issue deter your trip.

cheers

So the message is very clearly - IGNORE ALL LAWS EVERYWHERE AND JUST DO AS YOU PLEASE! People who proffer this message to a young inexperienced motorcyclist will "have blood on their hands" if anything happens to him whilst taking your stupid advice! - Just pass your test and then get a sensible middleweight to hone your skills on.

These road laws are designed to protect us ALL. If they are ignored then we are ALL at risk. How would you like YOUR mother run over by an unlicenced and uninsured motorcyclist? I have seen the consequences many times and I can assure you it's not very pleasant for ANYONE involved including the person who broke the law(s)...

As I have said above, anyone who tells this young man to break the law and ride otherwise than in accordance with their driving licence is on the balance of probability likely to be a CRIMINAL themselves or at the very least extremely childish and a future convict!

Reminds me of all those nasty and Ignorant people out their who regularly park in Disabled parking spaces and who have no consideration for people who have disabilities - It's been proven that these people are likely to be criminals. Most decent law abiding citizens would never dream of taking a disabled persons parking space...

Words Fail me!

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Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

Clearly, they don't.

Just to clarify, my points were:
Driving without an appropriate licence is wrong and not to be condoned.
Driving licences are not generally checked at borders.
Foreign number plates are not routinely pulled over by police forces.

Parking in disabled spots illegally is also wrong, as is driving without insurance where it is obtainable and legally required.

I think actually we agree on the main points of opinion.
Stephan

[QUOTE=kentfallen;206880]As I have said above, anyone who tells this young man to break the law and ride otherwise than in accordance with their driving licence is on the balance of probability likely to be a CRIMINAL themselves or at the very least extremely childish and a future convict!

QUOTE]

Kentfallen,

I dont appreciate your insinuation that someone who comments on this thread is a criminal. Stick to the facts next time and keep your personal prejudices out of this discussion.

Your comments are certainly valid in a UK context where it is illegal to drive a motorcycle without the correct licence. There is no debate here, as the law is clear. Therefore Londonman will have issues if and when he returns to Dover, on a motorcycle greater than 125cc. Further he may also have issues in countries which impose restrictions on motorcycles licences, such as in the EU, which is moving towards standardisation of European licence classes.

DO NOT however confuse the UK restrictions on motorcycle licences with restrictions that other countries may impose. The fact that Londonman has a valid motorcycle licence in the UK, albeit with capacity restrictions, means very little in developing countries which do not necessarily impose the same limitations. Therefore provided the countries he is riding in do not impose capacity restrictions he will be riding legally.

You also clearly do not understand the nature of insurance in developing countries. Irrespective of whether you have valid 3rd party insurance or not, the likelihood of this insurance paying out in the event that you are the cause of an accident is remote. Therefore anyone who rides in a developing country needs to be aware that if you are at fault, it may be customary to pay compensation to the local victim. This is not being irresponsible, rather it is a recognising what actually happens in practice.

The broader point however is that if Londonman were to undertake this trip, it is unlikely to be a major issue until he enters the EU.

cheers