Expensive bikes in developing countries.

[jacekklimko]

Hi all, got a question and would love to hear some honest answers.

What do you say to a curious local in a developing country when asked about the price of you bike? Do you answer honestly? Do you feel some guilt? Do you look away? Do you change the subject? Do you lie? Is this even a problem?

I don't want to sound moralistic, but I can't imagine riding, say, a new BMW R 1200 GS Adventure (currently sold at around $20.000).

I'm just wondering and curious to hear what's your opinion.

[mark manley]

I have told the odd lie as far as this is concerned in the past, I take the price of the most expensive bike the locals will have and double it which seems acceptable, I did once tell an Indian how much my R80GS cost and he called me a liar, he had no comprehension of that sort of money so after that I adopted the above policy.

[backofbeyond]

That's why it's useful to keep them (and you) covered in dirt. An inch of dirt and the perceived value halves.

Not everyone is bothered about what the locals think though. Did once see a Polish guy roll into a campsite in Africa on an Africa Twin. First thing he did was demand a bucket and a cloth so he could clean it. The rest of us were just happy our engines started.

[Jay_Benson]

Originally Posted by backofbeyond

Not everyone is bothered about what the locals think though. Did once see a Polish guy roll into a campsite in Africa on an Africa Twin. First thing he did was demand a bucket and a cloth so he could clean it.

There has got to be a joke in there playing on the Polish / polish bit. Someone will come up with something suitable.

[backofbeyond]

Yeah, an easy trap to fall into - it's why I deliberately stayed away from using it twice.

As it happened the bloke did polish it after he'd washed the dirt off. As he was about 6' 10" nobody was going to argue with him. He left the next morning at blurry picture o'clock on the back wheel for the first 50m.

Best I could do half asleep with a crappy point and shoot -

[shu...]

"How much did it cost?", he asked.

"A lot," I replied, with chagrin.

"But how many dollars?"

"Very expensive- like my wife- but worth it," I said with a big grin.


Also- I don't think it matters whether you're riding a BMW or a Suzuki DR650 or a KLR. They are all foreign, powerful and expensive motorcycles in most of the world. Likewise with your gear: an Arai or Shoei helmet is not going to be recognized as any different from a HJC or a Scorpion.


..........shu

[markharf]

I'm asked this question all the time, by all sorts of people--about my tablet or phone, my bike, my pants or boots. If I can't evade gently like shu above, I generally tell the truth, although perhaps shaded towards the cheaper end of the scale. For example, my KLR cost ~US$5000, but I don't mention the dealer prep charges, sales tax, registration fees, etc. which added another thousand or so, or the touring stuff I added which cost another couple of thousand. I doubt the difference between $5k and $6k or $8k really matters to anyone but me.

In my experience, those asking the questions already know the answers. They've asked others before me, and they've shared information with friends who've been asking. They may also be familiar with local people who own similar, large displacement bikes, purchased at much higher local prices, and there are police and military personnel riding large bikes, too. Aside from all that, they've likely got family or friends living in Europe or the States, earning and spending at the same levels as I. Lying, or even evading the question, merely serves to tell them I'm not to be trusted and/or feel guilty. I prefer not to communicate that message even when it's true.

What I'm aiming for is a conversation about the relative values of money in high-wage countries. I don't want to pretend that things are equitable when they're not, but the fact that in my country I earn $20 or $40 or $xxx per hour is not really separable from the related facts that I live 2000 miles from the place I grew up and the even more distant places where my parents died, that I recently paid $170 to have a waterproof zipper replaced on a jacket, that it is literally not possible to buy a restaurant meal in my town for under $10 (and rare to find one under $15 or $20).

Some people get this and some don't. Many of them already know it long before they ask me. When I travel, I'm trying to bring my full self with me and to enter into genuine relationships with actual people along the way. If I cannot generally tell the simple truths, maybe I shouldn't be there in the first place.

None of which applies when I feel like I'm bring set up to be forcibly separated from my possessions, of course. And when someone asks (as they sometimes do) how much money I've got in the bank or on my debit card, I lie without hesitation. There are limits to my purity.

Mark

[Scrabblebiker]

My answer tends to vary depending on the situation and how I read the person asking. This applies to both my motorcycle and my CDN $2500 bicycle when I'm travelling.

Most of the time I tell them the approximate real value of the equipment but I qualify it with explaining that I have to work very hard for many years in order to afford it. Sometimes I just say that I prefer not to tell. In other words, simply honesty.

On occasion, I've told people that I don't know since it was a gift from my fiance.

...Michelle

[sushi2831]

Hello

Originally Posted by jacekklimko

What do you say to a curious local in a developing country when asked about the price of you bike?

Is it a curious local who knows the difference in value of a 1996 BMW R 1100 GS with 200tkm or a 2019 BMW R 1250 GS with 15tkm?

Originally Posted by jacekklimko

Do you answer honestly? Do you feel some guilt? Do you look away? Do you change the subject? Do you lie? Is this even a problem?

If not, two riders, with those two bikes riding together, give him the exact value of there bikes, what does he think?
To him those are both "rich mans toys", one costs a fortune and the other 10 times a fortune.

Is this even a problem?
No, I got asked only a few times, I always said "It's expensiv, but I don't know how much it is in the local currency".
That was all to it, only on two occasions that answer wasn't enough for the guy who asked, but they were both asking in a way that I didn't continue the conversation.

If you meet someone who knows a bit about bikes, then why not have an nice and long talk about the price differences between countries.
Sometimes funny that even in 1. world countries some people think that all swiss were millionaires.

Originally Posted by jacekklimko

I don't want to sound moralistic, but I can't imagine riding, say, a new BMW R 1200 GS Adventure (currently sold at around $20.000).

Just accept that you are the rich guy who can afford to travel, eat in restaurants, sleep in Hotels, not having to work all day, ...

Only other rich guys like us will notice the value of your bike.
Doesn't matter if it's covert in dirt and mud or you just cleaned it.


sushi

[brclarke]

On the rare occasions I've been asked that, I tell them how much time it took for me to save up the money ( "Oh, about two years of saving..." ) and leave it at that.

[Tim Cullis]

I am very happy to engage with locals, but the conversation gets closed down if they start to quiz me on finances.

[markharf]

That's what it's like in the US: almost any topic is fair game (within reason), but questions about personal finances are considered offensive, even almost blasphemous. The fact is, some cultures don't see it that way, and this is a part of what's going on when locals approach you and launch right into "How much did your plane ticket cost? How much was your motorbike?"

I've had fascinating discussions with West Africans about this. Generally, they've been totally unaware that this sort of question might be out of line, and perplexed that we might believe it so. I'm not saying they're right--merely that it behooves us to examine our own belief systems, since they are sometimes rigid and irrational...just like everyone else's.

Again, if I feel like questions about money are putting me at risk, I have no qualms about declining to engage.

Mark

[*Touring Ted*]

Easy...

"This is not my bike. I am borrowing it. I am too poor to buy a motorcycle. Please don't charge me double for my dinner because I'm a Muzungo"

[mark manley]

Originally Posted by markharf

That's what it's like in the US: almost any topic is fair game (within reason), but questions about personal finances are considered offensive, even almost blasphemous. The fact is, some cultures don't see it that way, and this is a part of what's going on when locals approach you and launch right into "How much did your plane ticket cost? How much was your motorbike?"

I've had fascinating discussions with West Africans about this. Generally, they've been totally unaware that this sort of question might be out of line, and perplexed that we might believe it so. I'm not saying they're right--merely that it behooves us to examine our own belief systems, since they are sometimes rigid and irrational...just like everyone else's.

Again, if I feel like questions about money are putting me at risk, I have no qualms about declining to engage.

Mark

I have noticed this in the US that money is more taboo than in the UK but go to India and they are completely open about it and want to know the price of everything. I like the system in Sweden, Finland and Norway where earnings are a matter of public record which makes employers more accountable.

[chris]

Originally Posted by mark manley

I have noticed this in the US that money is more taboo than in the UK but go to India and they are completely open about it and want to know the price of everything. I like the system in Sweden, Finland and Norway where earnings are a matter of public record which makes employers more accountable.

Maybe wanting to know how much a bike costs is only an Indian (subcontinent) thing? Wherever I travel (been bored recently in these C19 times, so worked out I've ridden a m/c in 82 countries), I try to meet people. I don't really recall being asked very often how much my possessions/ vehicle costs. The once or twice I have been asked, the conversation was terminated pretty sharply by me blanking the questioner/ not understanding the question.

In recent times I've also tried to ride the roads and tracks less travelled = less people and less likely to ask city-dweller type questions.

In India I travelled on locally rented bikes, so any money obsessed local would know the price of things.