Ted makes a good point - the thread (like so many before it) did wander a little!

In addition to my earlier points I'd say this about DIY Advanture Touring - doing everything yourself gives you a far greater sense of achievement. I think people like to choose the level to which they 'DIY' - they do as much as they think their own skills allow them too and feel all the more pride in their acheivement. There is definately a feeling of satisfaction from home made kit/doing it on the cheap/ choosing your own bike (rather than what MCN tells you what you need). You will ofetn hear a DIY Adv-tourer telling you with pride how his home made panniers cost $8.50 and took a weekend to build - but you'd never hear that from someone who bought TT's off the shelf. Imagine - "Yeah, and I did my entire trip with these panniers - they cost £1000 and were adequate. Pretty proud of that..."

However, for some people that isn't important. They simply want to ride their lovely expensive bike in interesting places. There's nothing wrong with that. DIY is perhaps just an added dimension - something more you can take from the experience. If x = adventure motorcycling and y = DIY, then x on its own simply = x. But x + y = z. And z = DIY adventure motorcycling, which (for some people) is so much more than x.

(Saturday night. Lots of wine consumed - hope this isn't total nonsense!)

MAtt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Well, I'm one of those people that have a hard time understanding this fascination with "DIY"...that's great if some people get some sort of satisfaction out of spending a weekend building their own panniers, but for various reasons (explained below), I'd much rather spend a couple of hundred bucks to get something off the shelf, and spend my time riding or doing something else.

I live in Moscow and have neither the skills, time, garage, or tools to fabricate a bunch of stuff on my own, and morever, have no desire to, and money is not really an issue. I know what I want, and generally there is an acceptable commercial product; if not, I will do without or jerry-rig something that works.

I have some TT stuff, and some stuff by a variety of small vendors, I don't really care about the source, as long as it is functional and not crazy expensive. I'm not interested in showing off what I made in my garage, really not interested in your opinion of me or my bike whatsoever. I like to travel on my bike to wherever I want to go, and I don't see DIY as any kind of "added dimension". That weekend you spent in your garage making your panniers? I was probably out riding.

That's great that some people like tinkering with stuff like this, but to imply that you are somehow better for it is a bit much IMO...

Another dimension of 'What is diy mc travel?':
There's been talk about people who create and prepare their bikes and gear themselves, and also talk about people who travel 'off the cuff' (for want of a better term). The two are often quite far removed from each other.

Some people who build their own paniers 'etc' go quite over the top (imo), and are quite obsessive about having every thing/feature they could ever need and having absolutly the best possible. This to me is just a different side of the same coin from people who spend hours flicking through touratech catalogues 'etc' searching for the best kit money can buy and having every 'adventure motorcycling' accessorie they make. The difference between these two groups is only about the bike and gear, and the actual style of travel can often be quite similar.


To my mind the concept of 'diy advmoto' some here are getting at is more the ethos and style of the travel, not about whether you built your own bike and luggage. Thusly I don't see why buying ready made gear in any way excludes one from being a 'diyer'. It's hard to see someone on a brand new beamer with all the touratech clobber fitting this, but someone who just bought a bike and some basic motorcycle luggage and set off could well be.


In someways diy is about striving for independance, and in someways this can end up lessening a travel experience because it will reduce your interaction with people in the places you're travelling through.

/Edit, one last thing:
What's more adventurous, or even more 'DIY'; The traveller who takes a tent and a camping stove, and spends every night camping in the wilderness cooking their own nosh. Or the person who doesn't even have any camping equipment, and spends many a night in dodgey small hotels and guesthouses, and even in people's houses when it's offered or when desperate, and whom eats every day from dubious local cafes etc. The reality is that most travellers seem to do a bit of both however.

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UK to Mongolia 2009, on a DR350

Eh?! Where did I imply I was better for it?

If you read my post properly you'll see I've been as careful as possible not to say any such thing. Did you see this bit? -

"However, for some people that isn't important. They simply want to ride their lovely expensive bike in interesting places. There's nothing wrong with that."

Or, where I qualified my 'scientific formula' here: "DIY adventure motorcycling, which (for some people) is so much more than x."

I said, in what I thought was pretty basic language, that for some people it adds an extra dimension. For some people it doesn't. Its all good!


In my next post (two posts later) I was even clearer:

"For you DIY-ing would be a waste of your precious time. Absolutely fair enough.

I would say (IMHO) that the DIY-er places no less value on their time. But, because the (for example) manufacture of home made panniers is an enjoyable end in itself, the time spent on this is NOT a waste of time.

Most Adv-Tourers live in first world societies where the (say) 20 or so man-hours spent on building home made panniers would not really be that difficult to find. But for some it would be a pointless waste of time, for others it is an interesting and rewarding challenge.

There is no right way or wrong way - just your own way."



I always to try to discuss things as levelly and even handedly as possible, without implying that my way is the best way, my bike is the best bike or anything like that, as I'm well aware my way probably isn't the best way and my bike (given the fruitless afternoon I've just spent tinkering with the damn thing!) probably isn't the best bike!

The thread is about DIY adventure touring. I genuinely don't understand why you would read such a thread and then get offended by people trying to explain what it means for them.

Cheers,

Matt

PS - That weekend you were out riding? It was probably p*ssing it down here in Scotland!

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http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

I know I quoted you, but my post was actually a general reaction to some of the posts on this thread, although I did interpret your statement that DIY riding is "an added dimension - something more you can take from the experience" as meaning that you thought that making your own stuff makes riding a more complete experience (ie, x+y rather than simply x), which I don't really agree with.

I can't say that I was offended, more puzzled really. And your comment about the weather brings up a good point, that all of this is very situational...someday when I have more skills, time, tools, space, and stormy weather, it is very possible that I'll be beavering away in my garage as much as anyone...

I feel a kinship with all people who adventure on the road no matter how many wheels under them, peddle or power.
Simpler riding is dictated by the countries you travel through.
Asia lends itself to "diy", as small bikes are the norm. Less fuel, insurance is kept under the magic 150 cc limit . (This is written as an extra on travel insurance, mainly to accommodate the hiring of scooters at tourist spots. I know I'm stretching a friendship here, but there are no distance limits on many policies.)
A small bike can be sold at the border, if having troubles, and purchased on the other side. Also in case of an accident the bike is not a logistical pain. Its how the locals travel so there are always ways of travelling around trouble spots.
But with a small bike you have to be brutal in weight you carry, so you do get inventive.
I ,like many new here, have come from the backpacking world where I may have seen many who post here enjoying their freedom, that is advertising in its own right for my (cough) new found sport.

That's cool. I was worried my post had been misconstrued. I understand the sentiment - there inevitably creeps in a kind partisanship and snobbery between some members of different sectors of an otherwise homogenous group. I have no time for that nonsense - I like to ride with anyone - my riding buddies come from the full spectrum and I'd hate to think that I was guilty of looking down on someone whose approach was different to mine.

Matt

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http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Thats funny, I was thinking about this in the shower this morning! A while ago MCN did an article on adventure motorcycling with a mildly amusing attempt at creating categories of rider. I don't remember what they were exactly but one was the 'lone wolf'

I guess as any community grows it fractions and you get more distinct groups forming within it - is adventure biking going to go the way of us defining each other by what we ride, where we go or why we do it? Is this something we should be trying to shape or just let itevolve of it's own accord?

The reason I chose to ride a motorcycle was the high profile coverage of adventure motorcycling that took place a few years ago. I am of course talking about the Long Way.... productions, which I enjoyed watching.
Now, I cannot afford a big adventure motorcycle with all the fancy attachments; nor would I buy one if I could. Reason, I find large motorcycles dreadful to ride, and Touratech don't make bits specific for my bike!

So I am left adapting my own motorcycle, a 125, for the small trips I have done so far. One day I would love to buy a mid weight duel-sport bike with factory fitted panniers, but that isn’t going to be soon. This does not mean I am unhappy with my choice of bike and its arrangements at the moment, it’s just my preference.

I think a lot of hate is being directed at GS owners because of Ewan & Charley's programme; to people on this forum adventure motorcycling is a close to heart subject, and to see it displayed on television in such a way made a lot of people unhappy; perhaps it was an invasion of privacy.

I believe the DIY approach is more a fact of confirming oneself as a 'true' adventure motorbiker in some deep psychological way, similar to the chap at the end of the bar who drinks real ale and is therefore a 'true' pub goer (only people from Yorkshire will get that comparison!).

I read something similar. It's like this stuff is written by their advertising sales people. They decide to do yet another 600 supersports 4 way ride off. Advertising sales guy points out that Sports-Touring riders will be put off, so they do a side bar on how well throwovers fit and stick an advert for Oxford Luggage underneath. Then of course advertising sales guy gets an enquiry from a race school, so you get another one pager tagged on about how your CBR600 can have a slipper clutch and tyre warmers. I'd even wonder if the task Lois was given at the start was triggered by Touratech etc. wondering why their sales have levelled off?

In real life, I'd bet we'd struggle to find an R1200GS riding Touratech advert who hadn't stuck a bit of velcro inside his pannier lids to hold something or at the other extreme an Enfield riding Max Mad lookalike who hadn't thought about buying the odd SIGG bottle holder. The "categories" have to be blurry.


I don't think we can use the pub analogy in isoltaion. If Ewan and Charlie are drinking Peroni with a squeeze of lime in the wine bar round the corner while half of us are in a canal side boozer sampling the "Sheep Killer Ruby", I can find you riders who drink nothing but filtered rain water and others who'll only touch stuff made from real sheep. I know, I went to MZ club gatherings

Andy