This was printed in1996:

I like this

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surely DIY means pedal cycling rather than letting an engine propel you ? :-)

there's a paradox in there somewhere that reading about DIY sort of dilutes your DIY-fu.

then again, if you were to compare it to cooking... take raw ingredients at one end and ready made supermarket meals at the other, I think people of a certain mindset generally gravitate towards the raw end of the scale; regardless of where they initially land on that scale.

you can have an adventure with a tomato sandwich, just as you can with a naive trip to France.

I understood DIY to mean 'not an organised group tour'. I have to say there are a lot of potential DIY travellers on this site and others and I can't say I have noticed a European bias but then the septics stick mostly to their own sites I suppose.

Is there a lot more DIY'ing going on because of resources like the HUBB or is it just the same now as it was a few years ago just that people tend to over plan their trips because there is so much information available.

The downside with just setting off and working it out as you go is the amount of time you spend sorting things out in unfamiliar cities - we spent weeks in Cairo, Port Said and Suez trying to find a way round or over Sudan as at the time Sudan was closed. I'm sure it would be easier now.

Ted makes a good point - the thread (like so many before it) did wander a little!

In addition to my earlier points I'd say this about DIY Advanture Touring - doing everything yourself gives you a far greater sense of achievement. I think people like to choose the level to which they 'DIY' - they do as much as they think their own skills allow them too and feel all the more pride in their acheivement. There is definately a feeling of satisfaction from home made kit/doing it on the cheap/ choosing your own bike (rather than what MCN tells you what you need). You will ofetn hear a DIY Adv-tourer telling you with pride how his home made panniers cost $8.50 and took a weekend to build - but you'd never hear that from someone who bought TT's off the shelf. Imagine - "Yeah, and I did my entire trip with these panniers - they cost £1000 and were adequate. Pretty proud of that..."

However, for some people that isn't important. They simply want to ride their lovely expensive bike in interesting places. There's nothing wrong with that. DIY is perhaps just an added dimension - something more you can take from the experience. If x = adventure motorcycling and y = DIY, then x on its own simply = x. But x + y = z. And z = DIY adventure motorcycling, which (for some people) is so much more than x.

(Saturday night. Lots of wine consumed - hope this isn't total nonsense!)

MAtt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Well, I'm one of those people that have a hard time understanding this fascination with "DIY"...that's great if some people get some sort of satisfaction out of spending a weekend building their own panniers, but for various reasons (explained below), I'd much rather spend a couple of hundred bucks to get something off the shelf, and spend my time riding or doing something else.

I live in Moscow and have neither the skills, time, garage, or tools to fabricate a bunch of stuff on my own, and morever, have no desire to, and money is not really an issue. I know what I want, and generally there is an acceptable commercial product; if not, I will do without or jerry-rig something that works.

I have some TT stuff, and some stuff by a variety of small vendors, I don't really care about the source, as long as it is functional and not crazy expensive. I'm not interested in showing off what I made in my garage, really not interested in your opinion of me or my bike whatsoever. I like to travel on my bike to wherever I want to go, and I don't see DIY as any kind of "added dimension". That weekend you spent in your garage making your panniers? I was probably out riding.

That's great that some people like tinkering with stuff like this, but to imply that you are somehow better for it is a bit much IMO...

Another dimension of 'What is diy mc travel?':
There's been talk about people who create and prepare their bikes and gear themselves, and also talk about people who travel 'off the cuff' (for want of a better term). The two are often quite far removed from each other.

Some people who build their own paniers 'etc' go quite over the top (imo), and are quite obsessive about having every thing/feature they could ever need and having absolutly the best possible. This to me is just a different side of the same coin from people who spend hours flicking through touratech catalogues 'etc' searching for the best kit money can buy and having every 'adventure motorcycling' accessorie they make. The difference between these two groups is only about the bike and gear, and the actual style of travel can often be quite similar.


To my mind the concept of 'diy advmoto' some here are getting at is more the ethos and style of the travel, not about whether you built your own bike and luggage. Thusly I don't see why buying ready made gear in any way excludes one from being a 'diyer'. It's hard to see someone on a brand new beamer with all the touratech clobber fitting this, but someone who just bought a bike and some basic motorcycle luggage and set off could well be.


In someways diy is about striving for independance, and in someways this can end up lessening a travel experience because it will reduce your interaction with people in the places you're travelling through.

/Edit, one last thing:
What's more adventurous, or even more 'DIY'; The traveller who takes a tent and a camping stove, and spends every night camping in the wilderness cooking their own nosh. Or the person who doesn't even have any camping equipment, and spends many a night in dodgey small hotels and guesthouses, and even in people's houses when it's offered or when desperate, and whom eats every day from dubious local cafes etc. The reality is that most travellers seem to do a bit of both however.

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UK to Mongolia 2009, on a DR350

Eh?! Where did I imply I was better for it?

If you read my post properly you'll see I've been as careful as possible not to say any such thing. Did you see this bit? -

"However, for some people that isn't important. They simply want to ride their lovely expensive bike in interesting places. There's nothing wrong with that."

Or, where I qualified my 'scientific formula' here: "DIY adventure motorcycling, which (for some people) is so much more than x."

I said, in what I thought was pretty basic language, that for some people it adds an extra dimension. For some people it doesn't. Its all good!


In my next post (two posts later) I was even clearer:

"For you DIY-ing would be a waste of your precious time. Absolutely fair enough.

I would say (IMHO) that the DIY-er places no less value on their time. But, because the (for example) manufacture of home made panniers is an enjoyable end in itself, the time spent on this is NOT a waste of time.

Most Adv-Tourers live in first world societies where the (say) 20 or so man-hours spent on building home made panniers would not really be that difficult to find. But for some it would be a pointless waste of time, for others it is an interesting and rewarding challenge.

There is no right way or wrong way - just your own way."



I always to try to discuss things as levelly and even handedly as possible, without implying that my way is the best way, my bike is the best bike or anything like that, as I'm well aware my way probably isn't the best way and my bike (given the fruitless afternoon I've just spent tinkering with the damn thing!) probably isn't the best bike!

The thread is about DIY adventure touring. I genuinely don't understand why you would read such a thread and then get offended by people trying to explain what it means for them.

Cheers,

Matt

PS - That weekend you were out riding? It was probably p*ssing it down here in Scotland!

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

I know I quoted you, but my post was actually a general reaction to some of the posts on this thread, although I did interpret your statement that DIY riding is "an added dimension - something more you can take from the experience" as meaning that you thought that making your own stuff makes riding a more complete experience (ie, x+y rather than simply x), which I don't really agree with.

I can't say that I was offended, more puzzled really. And your comment about the weather brings up a good point, that all of this is very situational...someday when I have more skills, time, tools, space, and stormy weather, it is very possible that I'll be beavering away in my garage as much as anyone...

It seems unlikely to me that the "DIY approach to motorcycle travel" is any less common in the USA. But they don't leave North America as often simply because it is such a big place, and thus don't show up as much on this web site.

Also, what is the cutoff for a person who is "DIY"? Someone who doesn't use an organized trip? Someone who has no sponsors? Someone who can work on his own motorcycle? Someone who built his own motorcycle from scratch? Someone who bought all gear second-hand?

Depending on where you make the cutoff point, I am either a diehard DIY traveler, or have never touched the DIY philosophy a day in my life. For example, I work on my bike myself because I enjoy it, but I decided long ago that it is simply not worth my time to create most of the rest of my gear. Am I not a DIY'er because I place a high value on my own time?

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Traveling The World Since: 2011
Blog: The Seductive Life (General Travel)

And right there is the difference in philosophy!

For you DIY-ing would be a waste of your precious time. Absolutely fair enough.

I would say (IMHO) that the DIY-er places no less value on their time. But, because the (for example) manufacture of home made panniers is an enjoyable end in itself, the time spent on this is NOT a waste of time.

Most Adv-Tourers live in first world societies where the (say) 20 or so man-hours spent on building home made panniers would not really be that difficult to find. But for some it would be a pointless waste of time, for others it is an interesting and rewarding challenge.

There is no right way or wrong way - just your own way.

Matt

__________________
http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

I think that most of the DIY threads on ADVRider which I have seen were from the USA... things like carbon fibre panniers, or mermite tin panniers.

There seems to be [IMHO] three kinds of motorcycle travelers .
a] The young person on a strict budget ,eager to get out and see a bit of the world.
b] The older person who has raised a family and now has enough time and money to do extended trips .
c] The inveterate traveler ,for whom traveling is a necessary part of life ,or indeed has become a way of life.

DIY will ,more than likely appeal, to groups a and c .
The person most likely to read articles in a glossy magazine will be in group b .
Magazines are reliant upon advertising and ,like it or not ,companies like Touratech don't want to see articles slagging off their highly expensive tat.
So be kind !

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And of course, it's a lot easier to be a DIY biker if you're lucky enough to have a decent sized garage/workshop, a good set of tools and a bit of know how.

I'm very lucky. I inherited a very large, pretty well stocked garage from my dad (aircraft engineer and classic car restorer).

Imagine buying all the tools, equipment to build your own if you didn't have it already ?? It would cost a good few £££££.

Lot's of people living in apartments or small houses. People having to work on the street or kitchen table are going to find it MUCH more difficult.

I have to admit, I wouldn't do half as much DIY if it wasn't for my workshop.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

It's OK Dodger, I AM kind! This article is not about slagging anything off, it's a discussion about different philosophies to our hobby/way of life. It is not fuelled by an agenda - everyone can do what makes them happy as far as I am concerned - but lately I am seeing a move towards more lo-fi travelling and that is of interest to me, so I assume it will be of interest to the readers of the mag. Let's hope so!

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