Four of us were planning to ride to Senegal in January and after a pre-trip planning meeting where we tried to cover some of the points raised above, the consensus was that we would travel at the speed of the slowest rider.

After disembarking at Bilbao, one of the group was being cautious on bends so I kept at his speed. Not so the other two, who disappeared into the distance and despite text messages we didn't see them again until we reached the Middle Atlas Mountains, 900 miles and two days later! And then no apology.

After some more mishaps I decided that the disadvantages of travelling with this particular group outweighed the advantages; in fact I was hard pressed to recognise any advantages. So I was not too unhappy when they decided not to include me in their onward plans. I didn't hear any more from them during the trip.

Fortunately I have lots of experience of Morocco and am quite happy travelling solo. But as ukKev points out, the complete group ended up splitting, and two of them hadn't been to Africa before.

Unlike ukKev, I don't think of them all as friends

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

One BIG problem I've found with travelling with "unknown's" is that if they've not done much in the past or not been on an independant basis you find yourself as their NANNY ... and it gets a bit tiresome after a while

Check their background in travel in depth over a few drinks!

Kira

Tim your are so full of BULL, you had no intention of going to Dakar from the word go, all you wanted to do was stay in YOUR comfort zone of Northern Morocco and drink coffee all day, yes we did get split up coming off the ferry but as YOU so rightly pointed out the text messages confirmed that no'one was on their own and we would meet at the hotel in Morocco

The only mishaps were you falling over the minute you went offroad, as for not including you in the plans, you knew all the plans seeing as you made most of them!!!!! I seem to remember you telling a STORY about losing your passport etc offroading the day before, untill kev pointed out that it was at the hotel reception desk, at which you mumbled some other excuse, when we met you at the bikers hotel two days later, after you had gone to get new documents (mind you I did see your post on UKGSER saying that you had been in a business meeting!!!!). All you were interested in was cuddling the baby, drinking more coffee and sleeping but it's funny that you never said anything at the time about your trip being ruined. Still a man of your "experience" would go off to dakar on his own!!!!! As for the rest of the trip you chose to be involved for one week out of six, I don't see how you can comment on what did or did not happen. Apologies, I think you should make one for joining this trip at the start and having NO INTENTION of going all the way,basically you did the same dissapearing act that you did two years earlier when I met you in the alps on the euroADV rider meet

A few things went wrong on this trip and I learnt loads, but as well as that i/we(delete as applicable ) had some fantastic experiences, met loads of really nice people, amazing riding off and on road, crossing borders, new countries, new food, new , sunshine in January and DHL.

Back to the original question, I think NAMRON hit the nail on the head and I wish I had read it before this trip

cheers....lozza

I laid out £50 for the necessary injections, another £90 for malaria tablets, plus spent quite a few hours inputting GPS routes for Mauri and Senegal, so to say I had no intention of going to Dakar is clearly rubbish. To quote verbatim from my email before the trip,

My primary goals are
- spend a few days in the Azrou area (I'm looking for property)
- explore pistes near Azrou and elsewhere in Morocco
- see two or three Dakar stages in Morocco

Secondary goals
- make it to Dakar
- happy to chill at Zebrabar

We didn't get split up 'leaving the ferry', it was some 30 miles down the road when you and Andy zoomed off. Yes, we did eventually get text messages that you were heading for Granada, so Kev and I did the same, only to find out you had changed your minds and decided instead to go via Cordoba. But didn't bother telling us.

The next morning Andy was supposed to phone. But didn't and wasn't answering his phone. Nor did he reply to texts suggesting meeting up at Algeciras. The only text from you was a panicky message when you became separated from Andy in southern Spain.

As for getting new documents?? In Morocco?? No way.

I had a business meeting with the Centre for Regional Investment in Meknes which I had organised in advance and told everyone about. Yes, I was worried when I thought I had lost my travel docs, but jubilant when I realised the hotel still had the passport and then found the travel doc bag under a pile of clothes in my room (you obviously were preoccupied when I told you).

Because it was a busy time with the Dakar, the group had committed to staying two nights at Bikershome at Ouarzazate yet you all reneged on that, and even sneaked off without having the decency to tell me you were leaving. It was at that stage, and only that stage, that I made the decision not to go to Dakar.

After reading your post on UKGSer (since removed by the moderators) about one of your other erstwhile companions, it looks like it was a good decision.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

From the above -

1) we are all human and stuff up from time to time. And even dummy spit.

2) some people are fast, some slow. And not consistant either.

3) only a few will tolerate travelling at a pace other than their own. Fewer still are safe travelling at a pace other than their own.

Accept the above.

Best to set meeting points - refueling stops are good. Lunch and dinner at a maximum. Set the policy on what happens if someone goes missing. And make certain that all KNOW what to do if leaving (reather than missing). If you want/need more rules then do that.

If it is a long way between gas stop you may need to regroup frequently .. every 50km? 20km? .. so you have enough fuel to go back and recover someone .. and get going again .. without running out of gas!


One of the reasons why I ride a bike - I can go do my own thing without worring about upsetting someone else.

__________________
---
Regards Frank Warner
motorcycles BMW R80 G/S 1981, BMW K11LT 1993, BMW K75 G/S

have you ever stopped to wonder why?

Tim you can't even remember how many people were on this trip (5) you have chosen a public forum to voice the problems you say you had on this trip as a sad attempt to massage your over inflated ego. You continually post about your trips in Northern Morocco like you are some kind of Chris Scott / Ted Simon type character and you have managed to pull the wool over a lot of peoples eyes especiaklly on the UK Gser site, you tag along with everybody elses trips and they all seem to go tits up for you, doesn't that tell you something?
I don't post very often on the HUB, UKGser or ADV rider but I won't sit here and read your nasty jibes at the rest of the group in a vane attempt to cover up your own obvious shortcomings. If you are not man enough to say things face to face to people and explain what you percieve as a problem at the time, yet a couple of months later slag them off on a public forum I find that cowardly and pathetic.
Try to remember that this site is called HORIZONS UNLIMITED not horizons VERYlimited.



I apologise for hi-jacking this thread but some-one has to tell the fool.


loz

I stand by everything I wrote in my original post above. It's the facts. I don't perceive these comments to be 'nasty jibes', though I suppose my closing comment of 'Unlike ukKev, I don't think of them all as friends' was uncalled for.

However... with your response, my response to you, your subsequent response, etc, it HAS turned personal, so I think we should cease this here. I shall contact you by email to discuss the issues further.

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

please take this discussion off-line!

use pm's if you want, but the rest of us have no interest.

thanks, Grant

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com