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Personal protection devices Morocco, Western Sahara, etc Personal protection devices Morocco, Western Sahara, etc
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Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road Recent News, political or military events, which may affect trip plans or routes. Personal and vehicle security, tips and questions.
Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

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Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



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  #1  
Old 30 Dec 2009
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One thing I also would like to add.

A lot of the discussion has centered around the option of being able to let the would be robbers 'get on with it' whilst standing by. I rather suspect that most people who might try and rob a motorcyclist camped up at night, are going to expect that person to try and defend their things and therefore going to act in a way that won't give them chance. IE They're going to hit first.

Just as you risk seriously injuring or even killing a camp intruder, they also risk doing the same to you, unintentionally or otherwise. I would rather the former than the latter. You may have to live with the consequences, but at least you'll live.


It seems to me that the best suggestion in this thread is from Tim himself: Cable ties. If you did get attacked and robbed whilst camped, but successfully defended yourself, then immobilising the attacker so you can escape and maybe even get across a border would be at the top of my priorities.
Don't some/most specialist police and military outfits use strong cable ties to secure the hands of captured terrorist suspects etc?
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Old 30 Dec 2009
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yes cable ties would work, even teh thinner ones from garden centres, but if you have ever tried to cuff someone who doesnt want to be cuffed by yourself you will know that you have bugger all chance of getting cable ties on unless they are really out of it.

And again you might as well just kill them as putting restraints on someone in a remote part of any country is probably a death sentance unless you tell someone where to find them.

I guess there isnt really an answer to the ops question as every traveller has different abilities or thoughts on what self defence is and very few situations are the same.

So I still stand by the best form of protection is to use common sense and "dont be there" in the first place. And lets face it the odds are you are more likley to wake up in hospital on a friday night going out in any UK city than being attacked camping wild somewhere in Africa, but just with less sand in your underpants.
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Old 30 Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nath View Post
It seems to me that the best suggestion in this thread is from Tim himself: Cable ties. If you did get attacked and robbed whilst camped, but successfully defended yourself, then immobilising the attacker so you can escape and maybe even get across a border would be at the top of my priorities.
Don't some/most specialist police and military outfits use strong cable ties to secure the hands of captured terrorist suspects etc?

I'm sorry, I still think the cable ties are a really bad idea...successfully defending yourself and immobilizing the attacker enough to zip tie their arms are two completely different things. The fact that "specialist police and military outfits" use them is neither here nor there, because such units are (a) armed; and (b) trained units, and not lone, untrained, unarmed individuals. How can anyone really think this is a good idea?

And I presume you are only proposing to zip-tie arms and not legs; leaving someone tied hand and foot in the desert in a remote campsite could well be a death sentence. I have no problem with giving thieves a good thrashing, but this is something else altogether...
Last edited by motoreiter; 30 Dec 2009 at 14:23.
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Old 30 Dec 2009
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A last quick note as this is just going around and around, this is from the hourses mouth and not hearsay, in remote parts of the world a GS1200A is something from mars and the person riding it has untold wealth and this make them a potental kidnap.

If you are ever in this situation or being lead off somewhere for further violation agianst your will, the time to act is in the first instance as the longer you leave it the more you become under their control. Always act at once before they can control the situation, make noise shout fire, move around make it difficult for them to control the situation.

But back in the real world and not the movies, if this was happening all to often we would never go out of our doors.

All have a great newyear and be safe.

Thefastone
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Old 30 Dec 2009
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I have two types of cable ties permanently mounted to the frame of my bike
- 15 x standard sort (5mm wide by 38mm long)
- 6 x extremely heavy duty (13mm wide by 56mm long)

The heavy duty ones would probably support a broken subframe.

I'm pretty certain the standard ties would hold someone. You can of course join ties to increase length, you could also quickly work out a 'hobbling' mechanism so the would-be thieves could slowly depart. Two guys could become a three-legged race team.

I think Thefastone is right about acting early rather than letting things develop. I can't see me using a knife, blunt instruments are also potentially lethal and it's literally decades since I did Judo.

This is why I feel if I was ever in need of protection the pepper spray idea is still the best to carry as it's non-lethal, non-permanent, can be deployed without warning, and can continue to be used as a threat whilst you secure the would-be thieves.

Tim
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Old 30 Dec 2009
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I have no experience with pepper-spray but I do have quite a lot experience with CS-gas.

When sprayed the most common reaction is to turn around and run. You have to be extremely lucky to get control over one attacker. Two are almost impossible.
As long as they manage to run away all you can do is to sit and wait and wonder if they return….
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I have to say that if I were to use a spray my very next reaction would be to get the hell out of therer as fast as possible (the packing regime would not be fully adhered to). The only issue with trying this in the Western Sahara is there is generally only one road with a limited option of North or South! Not exactly "getting lost in the crowd" territory.

I
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