 |

15 Jan 2008
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 26
|
|
The Terrorists win again...
Why do we continue to give in to terrorists threats. Each time we give cave in to their threats, we've been terrorized, and they have achieved their objective.
Obviously, these fanatics desire an Islamic world; each time we capitulate we bring them closer to realizing their objective. Now they don't even need to commit acts of violence. When we live in fear all they need do is tell us what to do or what not to do and we will obey unquestioningly. They've already won.
Without the essential ingredient of our own fear, terrorism is useless, that's why it's called terrorism. When do we decide to take a stand? What's going to happen when the terrorists demand we cancel the Olympic games, or the world cup?
Each time we give in to their demands we give them a victory, we give them 'ground' that will be extremely difficult to to regain.
I feel that canceling the rally was an error in judgment based on fear. Remember, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself".
|

15 Jan 2008
|
 |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LONDONISTAN, England
Posts: 1,034
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff akins
Why do we continue to give in to terrorists threats. Each time we give cave in to their threats, we've been terrorized, and they have achieved their objective.
Obviously, these fanatics desire an Islamic world; each time we capitulate we bring them closer to realizing their objective. Now they don't even need to commit acts of violence. When we live in fear all they need do is tell us what to do or what not to do and we will obey unquestioningly. They've already won.
Without the essential ingredient of our own fear, terrorism is useless, that's why it's called terrorism. When do we decide to take a stand? What's going to happen when the terrorists demand we cancel the Olympic games, or the world cup?
Each time we give in to their demands we give them a victory, we give them 'ground' that will be extremely difficult to to regain.
I feel that canceling the rally was an error in judgment based on fear. Remember, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself".
|
I have always believed that you can never beat terrorists, although like everyone else I am not happy to see the Dakar cancelled, but what could the rally organisers do?
What would have been said if the terrorists 'brought down' one of those big Dakar planes, or any competitors were shot, blown up or kidnapped, when it was known a threat had been made against the rally, it is so easy for the Dakar armchair followers to say it should have gone ahead, but if you were asked to ride across a section of desert that may or may not be mined, would you do it?...think not.
It all comes down to possibilities, and it was possible that the rally could have been attacked, and it is also possible that the Olympics, World Cup or any other big sporting occaision could be targeted.
The World we now live in post 9/11 is one where we have to take notice, look around you at work,social gatherings etc, it's all about risk assessments, insurance and 'covering your back'. Who would ever take the decision after a threat to say. "F  K em the rally goes ahead?" either someone very brave or totally stupid.
__________________
'He who laughs last, was too slow to get the joke'
Never confuse the map with the journey.
|

15 Jan 2008
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 69
|
|
Geoff, Dave,
Both of you are absolutely right. The trick is to try and strike a balance to steer through these threats, mitigate where possible, but not be diverted.
I maintain that the choice to go ahead with the Dakar should have been down to the riders and drivers. They should have been fully briefed on the concerns and asked to make their own minds up. I bet that the majority would have gone ahead.
The problem that we have these days in our own comfortable world is that we've forgotten that freedom ain't free. Maintaining that freedom does mean taking risks, sometimes at an individual level. This is why the Rally participants should have been consulted, rather than leaving the decision to organisers which were at the receiving end of strong arm lobbying from fearful armchair strategists and politicians in Paris.
I'm sure that the Mauri gvmt and army would have moved heaven and hell to do what they could to ensure security, as would the authorities in Western Sahara. Indeed, an opportunity for improved cross border cooperation between two rival countries may have been lost.
One of the things that I've always liked about the travel and overlanding side of life is that even though risks are sometimes taken to complete a journey or country, people who would possibly not otherwise often see westerners get exposed to us and mostly in a positive way. We may not set out to influence hearts and minds, but we do leave an impression with the people we meet. I hesitate to use the term 'ambassadors', but in a small way we are. We show the quiet faces of ordinary people from our countries. Faces that are masked by the sometimes catastrophic foreign policy decisions of our Governments.
If we stay away, then sometimes all that's left is the propaganda of those who would wish to do us down. Fear and suspicion is fostered and in a few extreme cases radical views can gain a foothold.
Cancelling the rally gives those negative views a firmer foothold.
Therefore measured risks should sometimes be taken, if only to provide a more positive view of our society which can be generated by those of us who reach out to other societies by the nature of our travel. 'They ain't all bad' is a better view for citizens of developing countries to hold of us. Better that, than let anti western radicalism have a free hand to form opinions.
Freedom ain't free, but simple things, like travel and mixing with other cultures and peoples means that it doesn't have to be that expensive either.
I just hope that the Dakar cancellation hasn't made life for us 'independants' just that tiny bit more awkward. (though going by the Plymouth/Dakar Rally field reports, Mauri is still just fine for travel)
Well, that's enough of my armchair ranting. In 10 days I'll be in Mauritania with Barbara and the GS. It will be interesting to see if anything has changed since our last visit.
Regards
Craig
|

19 Jan 2008
|
 |
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bayou Vista, Texas, u.s.a.
Posts: 90
|
|
Rename it!
Call it the Lisbon to Dakar Jihad. Maybe they will donate money?????
|

19 Jan 2008
|
 |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LONDONISTAN, England
Posts: 1,034
|
|
Too late
I maintain that the choice to go ahead with the Dakar should have been down to the riders and drivers. They should have been fully briefed on the concerns and asked to make their own minds up. I bet that the majority would have gone ahead.[quote]
It would not have just been down to riders/drivers, how about all the support crews, and the plane and helicopter pilots?. With such short notice it would have been a major logisitcal headache, negociations need to be made before next years rally also becomes another farce, saying that, there is still no guarantee that any 'splinter' groups will not make any threats.
__________________
'He who laughs last, was too slow to get the joke'
Never confuse the map with the journey.
|

25 Jan 2008
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Riogordo, Spain
Posts: 325
|
|
Looks like something may be happening with the Dakar 2008 after all. Following the email from ASO to everybody on the Dakar mailing list, it's just been announced on Spanish news that there will be 3 phases in 2 continents starting 18 April. No more details were given.
|

25 Jan 2008
|
Registered Users
HUBB regular
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: spain
Posts: 72
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Looks like something may be happening with the Dakar 2008 after all. Following the email from ASO to everybody on the Dakar mailing list, it's just been announced on Spanish news that there will be 3 phases in 2 continents starting 18 April. No more details were given.
|
i'll be watching that with interest!
__________________
Dean
|

26 Jan 2008
|
 |
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London and Granada Altiplano
Posts: 3,165
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcc
One of the things that I've always liked about the travel and overlanding side of life is that even though risks are sometimes taken to complete a journey or country, people who would possibly not otherwise often see westerners get exposed to us and mostly in a positive way. We may not set out to influence hearts and minds, but we do leave an impression with the people we meet. I hesitate to use the term 'ambassadors', but in a small way we are. We show the quiet faces of ordinary people from our countries. Faces that are masked by the sometimes catastrophic foreign policy decisions of our Governments.
If we stay away, then sometimes all that's left is the propaganda of those who would wish to do us down. Fear and suspicion is fostered and in a few extreme cases radical views can gain a foothold.
|
Nice words, and I've quoted you in my blog! The Diama piste to Sénégal « There and Back Again
__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)
Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!

Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|