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16 May 2011
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4 vs 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by peekay
Bottom line I guess is learn to use 2 fingers for normal riding, but train / condition yourself to use full 4-finger-panic-braking for emergency situations.
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At the risk of being completely  I'll launch into the debate.
The problem with this theory is when do you know that an emergency is an emergency? It could happen that you are braking with 2 fingers but then the situation requires harder braking and you need all 4 fingers to do an emergency stop. In that situation, you would need to pretty much get all fingers off to wrap the 4 fingers back around to ensure full leverage of the brake lever...
The practice I was taught (rightly or wrongly) applies to 95% of the motorcycling population and it is be prepared for an emergency everytime.
When riding overland, and this is where I disagree with Ted (respectfully of course) is that you are on the road and it is unpredictable, this means that you don't have control of your environment. Keep following my logic... So unlike in a motorcross race where the traffic and conditions are controlled where you have a short brake lever for 2 finger braking to permit use of accelerator and keep bar control, on the road in normal touring mode this motorcross race technique is rarely going to help, and will not provide the security and stopping power in an emergency.
I think we've uncovered two different techniques and their applications rather than two schools of thought.
1) 4 finger braking for full length levers in 95% of on-road in traffic conditions
2) 2 finger braking for 1/2 length levers when riding motorcross or off-road
and to cover the 5%
3) Experienced off road riders who don't ever need emergency braking or who's technique is next to god like, you can use 2 finger braking.
Oh and for the record, when you use 4 fingers, you don't loose control of the bar because (thanks to evolution) we have an opposable digit called the THUMB.
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16 May 2011
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Another off-topic chip-in on the braking front. I was taught the four finger, roll-round technique previously mentioned, but the rolling forward wasn't to do with braking efficiency/smoothness but to make sure the throttle rolled off. This was great for test day but for real-world riding I nearly always use two fingers and have never had any problems with insufficient stopping power.
This might be a learned thing from mountain biking, where having four fingers on the lever will DEFINITELY compromise your bar control.
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16 May 2011
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P.S. buy a pair of lock-wire pliers and some lockwire (dirt cheap), and then lockwire everything onto the frame - that way if it does work loose or a bolt snaps you're not trapsing round in the dirt looking for your footpegs etc. It's also good for a variety of other things such as keeping your bar grips on if they are slipping a bit.
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16 May 2011
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I always use lock wire and also Nylock type nuts (the ones with the ring of Nylon in them) on all of my bikes and have never had a problem....YET....
One problem with Locktite is that when it leaks in your bag.........
Once the bolt is drilled, it lasts, and no need to clean threads etc.
Things such as the sump drain bolt, I drill the head and when fitting, I only 'nip' the bolt enough to stop it leaking, and no chance of over-tightening. Securing the lock wire against the 'unscrewing' direction stops the worry.
A lot of machines have dots, lines or other marks to aid the mechanic build the bike from the crate, such as dots on the handlebars and handlebar clamps. This is to standardise the bike, nothing more. Its a good starting point, but as discussed, everyone is different.
Regarding front brake and clutch levers, I set mine (sat on the bike) hands on grips with fingers and arms straight and the levers just touching my fingers. In this position you have a staight squeeze on the lever with no bent wrist which will make your wrist and forearm ache. Do turn the bars from lock to lock to check clearence with the fuel tank or fairing etc. Obviously, you may need to alter this if you ride most of the time standing up!
In the event of an emergency stop, I have never had time to think of how many fingers to use! I use what comes to hand!
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16 May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboCharger
At the risk of being completely  I'll launch into the debate.
The problem with this theory is when do you know that an emergency is an emergency? It could happen that you are braking with 2 fingers but then the situation requires harder braking and you need all 4 fingers to do an emergency stop. In that situation, you would need to pretty much get all fingers off to wrap the 4 fingers back around to ensure full leverage of the brake lever...
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Well of course, this is another one of those "there is no right or wrong" situations. I think it's personal preference.
I used to be a four finger braker for many years before I untrained myself after doing a few track days (on supermotos and sports bikes) and realising just how much control you're losing taking all your fingers off the bar...
It's going to come down to finger strength too I guess. I ride every day so I have quite a lot of strength in my braking fingers now I suppose..
Although, I have to add... If you can't lock up your wheels with two fingers, you've either got shit brakes or arthritus !
One you can do something about....
__________________
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Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
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16 May 2011
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I don't have particulary small hands, but I can't even get all four fingers on my brake! My first finger touches the joint of the brake lever.
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18 May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
Although, I have to add... If you can't lock up your wheels with two fingers, you've either got shit brakes or arthritus !
One you can do something about....
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My point was more about technique then ability though it depends which bike and what brakes you have, however on all newer bikes I would have to agree. Even 1 finger is enough...  but which finger?
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18 May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboCharger
My point was more about technique then ability though it depends which bike and what brakes you have, however on all newer bikes I would have to agree. Even 1 finger is enough...  but which finger? 
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As tasty as that bait is, I've already eaten.. hahahaha
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Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
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11 Jun 2011
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10x very helpful
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28 Apr 2012
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A bit late maybe, but here my two cents:
My wife and I travel on two Africa Twins, not the lightest I know...
We are roughly equal considering length etc, so we have the bikes in a roughly similar setup.
Maybe this is not perfect for the person riding his/her bike normally, but it does make it very easy to swap bikes when you need to.
e.g. when we were in Bolivia, playing in the mud for a few days above 4000 meters altitude, Mirjams bike ran on one cylinder. We swapped so I had this issue to fight with, and Mirjam drove my bike through the mud for 3 days. I think it is very nice when the other bike feels natural to you when you have to drive it!
maybe something to consider.
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20 Sep 2013
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Regarding the 2 verses 4 finger technic can I suggest that as a starting point,
A) losen brake and clutch lever at clamps and rotate out of the way(facing down )
B)Place hands on grips and allow your hands to to hang in a natural fashion, i.e. don't hold your fingers up.
C)Look at the angle of your hands are at and rotate brake and clutch back to this position.
This is the optimum position wether you have a disability or not and will provide ample leverage for 2 finger braking even under sustained hard braking, and will substancialy reduce fatige on hands and wrists.
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