But that is exactly what you are doing !! Cherry picking distorted media facts or short range statistics which are so wildly inaccurate and change depending on which expert you listen to on the day. Even Governments have been forced into admitting that they don't really have an idea. But 'Project fear' has historically been the best way to get people to do as their told.

In the U.K for example, ANYONE who dies with 28 days of a Covid test is said to die of Covid. Even if they died of any other terminal disease. Even if they were in a car accident FFS !!

And that's how it looks like for you. I don't believe you speak for your entire nation. No offence meant.

Apartheid is any type of segregation or discrimination. I'm not comparing Covid to racism.

Apartheid is an Afrikaans word meaning "separateness", or "the state of being apart", literally "apart-hood" (from Afrikaans "-heid").

I have no desire to get into a 'Covid' debate with anyone. I am not a covid denier or an anti-vaxer. I am against corrupt Governments abusing their power and destroying civil liberties (Which are so hard to gain but so easy to dismantle) under the guise of protecting their nation. Do you really believe our 'Politicians' really care if you die or not. They're owned. They don't work for the people. They work for themselves or whoever else lines their pockets or promises them glory.

If you are vaccinated then you should have no fear from those who are not.

We don't lock up and segregate those who haven't had vaccines for the COUNTLESS other contagious and dangerous viruses which have been lapping the world since the beginning of time.

Guns kill far more people in the USA than Covid ever could. But try bringing in a law that denies anyone who owns a firearm from entering a coffee shop, cinema or mall. Imagine if you had to tell shop or bar that you owned a gun and then had to be searched at the door to prove you didn't have it with you.

Do you want to live in a world where you have to check in to your local coffee shop with a digital ID ? To have to show ID in every public place ?. It's an orwellian nightmare. With a button press on a keyboard by a trigger happy official, you could be kicked out of society.

But for those who make obscene amounts of money from data harvesting, fear and control, it's a dream. And they're the ones who are sponsoring and lobbying our Governments. Don't get me started on Pharmaceutical companies whose entire business model is to keep people as sick as possible for as long as possible. They put a price on life and death. It's vile.

I'm still going to get my vaccine this morning. But I feel like I have a gun to my head.

I understand my post is somewhat of a rant. And I'd like to add that I do respect and appreciate your opinion.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Awww Ted. Guns? Data harvesting? Pharmaceutical companies trying to keep you sick for as long as possible? Sorry, but we're no longer addressing the same subject. If you'd like to tell me what statistics I've got wrong (and where to find the correct ones), I'll listen--otherwise, too many generalizations and too far-flung.

As for Apartheid, I'll accept the Britannica definition: https://www.britannica.com/topic/apartheid . I've never been treated this way, and neither have you. Don't play victim.

Have at it.

Mark

I apologise for making your argument irrelevant with comparatives or broadening the question.

If you want information, try google...It's all out there.

I'm not going to have a petty argument about dictionary definitions. Oxford vs Britannica blaah blaah.

If a section of society is segregated or discriminated against due their "Vaccine status" for basic liberties such as freedom of movement in their own country then I can't see it being called anything else. Even the Church of England has called it the Covid Apartheid. The relevance is in the context, not the wording.

I've just had my jab. And for the tenth time, I'm not an antivaxer. I'm anti-apartheid. I will not ban anyone from my workshop because they haven't had a vaccine. I didn't before my jab, nor will I now.

If you are vaccinated and if you understand what a vaccine is, then you will have no risk from those who have not. There is no logic or reason for domestic covid passports.

So I ask again, why don't we do the same for every other contagious virus ? Influenza kills a lot of people. We don't force people into having a vaccine for flu. Or ban those who haven't from travel and bars.

Look at the bigger picture. And have at it....

Now I have to get back to work. Why do I get sucked into time wasting covid threads. They're worse than hard vs soft luggage threads.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Amen to that (a without prejudice reply )

Once again muddled thinking.

Vaccines mutate when they are put under pressure to evolve.

The primary reason for this process to occur is through vaccination. As the vaccine starts to eradicate the virus it must change or die.

The notion that unvaccinated people are responsible for mutating viruses shows a lack of understanding about how the human immune system functions.

Sadly, this is also wrong. Viruses mutate whether under pressure or not. They tend to mutate at a steady rate varying by the stabillity of their genome - the virus genome is far less stable than ours - think of it as being closer aligned to the Haggunenon*. Have a read in the Metro they give a bit of background - https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/04/covid-uk-why-do-viruses-mutate-14017735/

The concern about large numbers of people being unvaccinated is that that tends to mean that there will be more people that have the full blown virus and as they tend to be have a higher viral load when they get the virus than those that have been vaccinated but have caught the virus anyway. It is this higher viral load that create more opportunities for the virus to mutate - more virus particles so more that may mutate. For someone that is vaccinated there have fewer virus particles in their system so fewer opportunities for the virus to mutate.

Added to that the evidence that those that have been vaccinated but have caught the virus are less likely to transmit the virus means that even if there is a mutation then it is less likely to be passed on.

At the end of the day the vaccines reduce the hospitalisation and death rates as they were designed to do. They also reduce the chances of catching the virus and the chances of passing it on. The way it does this is by training the body to recognise the prescence of virus particles and to then quickly swamp them with antibodies so that they don't cause a significant issue in the vast majority of cases - the body is able to generate the antibodies quickly as it has already done this once with the first and second doses of the vaccine - i.e. it knows the formula.

* - https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Haggunenons

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You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.

Jay Benson

The definition you quoted indicated that the purpose of a vaccine was to promote an immune response.

Since the purpose of the human immune system is to promote an immune response thereby providing immunity from further infection, you are arguing my exact point.

I stated that the "primary" reason for pressure to cause virus evolution was through vaccination. I did not say every reason to cause pressure for virus evolution was through vaccination.

If you wish to read the opinion of a world renown virologist on this particular point then you can find his writings here.

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/

I've now - quite willingly and happily - had my second Astra Zenica jab, but accept that anyone and everyone should have the absolute right to refuse a vaccination. You're more than welcome to accept a higher risk of infection and potentially more serious consequences from such infection rather than accept the risk that taking the vaccine might pose; or indeed if you perceive that taking the vaccine might infringe upon your civil liberties, then no problem, 'just say no'.
As ever (though usually overlooked) all such 'rights' come with associated 'responsibilities' and in the case of Covid-19, that responsibility is that you should keep your choice to yourself and not impose it upon others. Your own country can't throw you out, but should others not wish you to enter their's, or businesses both home and abroad wish to exclude you from their premises, that's just good sense from both a public safety and economic standpoint. To claim it to be 'discrimination' is no less ludicrous than my saying the same about not being allowed to ride my motorbike in pedestrian areas, or ride a bicycle along a motorway

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BobnLes

Here you are arguing for my exact point. If someone, whether they are UK citizen, resident, or traveller is part of 77 percent of unvaccinated in the UK that person poses the same risk to the population. Whether a person travels or not is immaterial.

As you noticed by quoting it, I specifically used the term "If all the above statements are accepted to be correct". Therefore if you have an issue with accepting this as true, then you should have addressed that point rather than just stating that it is wrong.

I fully agree to *ted*

Unfortunately it gets harder to even discuss that open minded..

Surfy

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About Overlanding, Travelogues, Equipment
Trans-Africa over the west coast

Yours doesn't, USA`s old one didn't either, but my mine does.

Mezo.