I'm starting to think about changing my Pan European for something a little lighter and (possibly) more rugged. This probably won't happen for another year yet but I am looking for information.

Can you tell me the down side and common faults of the following bikes please:

BMW R 1200 RT
BMW GSA
Honda Crosstourer
Triumph Explorer

I'm not interested in the plus side of each - any magazine test is full of those. It's the reasons NOT to buy them I'm interested in.

1, They are all shaft drive.
2. They are all 1200cc.

Spread your wings a bit?
Anyway, I suggest you read through some threads in the "which bike" section rather than the pub.

__________________
Dave

Your pan European is more rugged and reliable than all of those choices.

Why such big bikes ??

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I can't comment about reliability but I'd be surprised if a Pan is more rugged than any of those choices except possibly the RT.

Why such a big bike? To be honest I don't really have a justification for one. I just like a large capacity.

I'm aware that many people here are (by my standards) do extreme riding. I am not looking to leave Europe and I'm not planning on leaving metalled roads but I'm also becoming aware that I'm looking at going places that are more likely to involve an un-metalled road so the idea of an 'adventure' motorcycle over the Pan is that it is something more capable of taking the odd knock here and there and it will be viewed as 'character', where with the Pan it would be viewed as 'that bike's a mess'.

I hope that clarifies my thinking a little.

That said, you have both suggested that a 1200 is too big. What sort of thing do you ride and what sort of riding do you do, so I can get a comparison with what I do?

I've had a pan.. And I'm a BMW tech. Depends what you class as rugged

Do you want something to go on trails with ??

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Are you tall?
The new Africa twin !
You can be our "road tester" and tell us all about it.
think of it as a service to the hubb community

But more to your question, all are too big if you like off-road riding, and if you like traveling far, spares availability may be complicated.
Still great bikes...you may find it easier to choose if you write down your priorities as far as terrain, countries to visit (do they have dealerships etc) eg a tall narrow bike would be great if you also commute to work)
personally I love (jap) shaft drive bikes

Able to take a few knocks without costing 3 figures to replace a fairing side that the bike would look awful without. It's also about having a bike I can pick up off the road if it falls over - which I can't with the Pan (much as I love it).

I don't want to intentionally go off the road or even green-laning but I do want to go to places like Norway where I've heard that you can potentially go from a metalled road to a gravel track with not advanced warning, or I could perhaps go on some of the higher roads/tracks in Andorra.

I am tall - if the bike is supplied I'll test it

I don't want to go off road - just have something where I'm committed to turning around if the road becomes a gravel track.

Well I'd forget all of the big 1200s.

They're all heavy and expensive and cost a fortune to keep pretty.

An F800GS might suit you well.

Perhaps a 650 Transalp.

Unless you're committed to big engined bikes ???

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

The drive line faults are common and WELL KNOWN on the BMW's ... especially
GS models. But still ... overall a FANTASTIC bike but more COSTLY to own and maintain than your Pan by a large margin.

The Pan is a long proven bike, one of the best ever produced, perhaps most reliable of anything on your list. But now dated, YES ... and heavy and BIG. :thumb down:
The RT BMW is another GREAT bike ... but expensive and expensive to run. Also a BIG and heavy bike. But rides like a sports bike.

The Crosstour should be reliable, manageable, cheap to run but still quite heavy IMO. Affordable. There is a "new" 1250 Crosstour coming this year. All upgraded, not yet released here in USA.

The Explorer is a wonderful bike but all huge & heavy. Feels smaller than it is, rides light. (yes, I've ridden it) Reliability on Triumph's has proven good but it's early days yet on the Explorer.

Other Bikes I would consider:
Kawasaki Versys 1000
Highly rated, smooth, comfortable, does it all at half the price of BMW.

Honda Africa Twin
Promises to be good all round

Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
cheap, cheerful and incredibly capable, cheap to run.

EDIT to add :
Tiger 800XC-X
Smaller lighter than liter class lumps, nippy and fun, reliable. Downside? EXPENSIVE!

V-Strom DL650
lighter than DL1000, easier to manage. Won Motorrad Alp Tour test twice! (this is BIG!)

I've had an ST1300 for 5 years - I love it and have been all over Europe on it. It's got >53k miles on it now and it's a bike I intend to keep for a long time to come.

But I have also just bought a Triumph Tiger 800 XRT and I think it's got the makings of an excellent touring bike. Despite the smaller engine it is every bit as quick as the Pan European for 'normal' use, and is over 100kg lighter and very fuel efficient. It's a very easy bike to ride and will be a lot more enjoyable than the ST in the Alps. Comes with cruise control and heated seats, grips etc as standard. As others have indicated, don't get fixated on the 1200+cc bikes - sometimes they can be just too big and heavy for some circumstances. I'm planning a trip through Norway and Finland and I suspect the Tiger will be a far better bike for the job.

Perhaps the Tiger 800 might be worth a look?

Your current Pan Euro has those "wing things" built into the fairings - I understand that they are meant to act as crash bungs.
But it sounds like, from your post above, that you already have experience in dropping the Pan.

I do understand your concern about the bodywork of any bike; some folks remove the original in-as-new-condition panels and replace them with damaged parts, or even omit the bodywork and ride the bike naked.
Then put them back in-as-new-condition when it is time to sell the bike.

So, maybe give it a go on a ride through, say, Norway?

I have helped others pick up the 1200 boxers and they are easy enough - lying over at just about 45 degrees only, supported on the sticky-out cylinders.
But picking up any bike on the flat in ideal conditions is a whole different game from when it is tipped over on a 1:4 hill, lying the wrong way, the rider is more than a little flustered about dropping it in the first place, and the luggage is still attached.
Or even when the bike is semi-upside down in the ditch at the side of the highway.

About my earlier post:
You might want to test ride a few of those bikes - the 2 cyl boxer is a very different character compared to the V4 and the inline triple.

__________________
Dave

This is so true ... now add either mud, deep sand or ice into the equation and it's TOUGH! I remember trying to get my buddies KTM 990 up off him (he was pinned like an insect) in deep sand. Footing was nil and no one else around to help. My buddy was crying in pain. It took everything I had to heft that lump up and I only just got it up enough for him to wriggle out.

After a rest, we both got it back on it's wheels. KTM light?

Honda Africa twin or the XR 650 / 600 with big tank and enjoy the ride

NX650 Dominator

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.