Oh BTW, I went to answer the poll but there wasn’t an ‘I’ve no opinion at the moment, I’ll wait and see how it develops’ category

I must admit its always amazed me that chains last as long as they do on a bike. I mean where else would you get something that consists of nothing else other than fine tolerance but crudely constructed sliding and rolling components that are expected to work for long periods at high speed in an uncontrolled environment full of abrasive particles and corrosive chemicals without any protection. The exposed valve gear on some vintage motorcycles is the only other area I can think of with similar issues and all of those were soon covered up.

The only advantages chains seem to have are cost (for the manufacturer - keeps the sticker price down) and 'convenience' (ie you can change gearing easily). Considering how the weight of both chains and bikes have grown over the last few decades I'm not sure the 'chains are lighter than shafts' argument has much validity any more. For road bikes I'm also not sure the ability to change gearing easily has much validity either. How many people here have actually changed the gearing on a touring bike (and improved it!)? I've done it once in the last 15yrs - on my 125, where I put on a 1 tooth smaller engine sprocket.

I'm also surprised that the powers that be still allow exposed bits of machinery to flail around in close proximity to body parts. If health and safety are so concerned about things going wrong that they're trying to remove drivers from cars to improve safety (!) how can a 19thC leftover from cotton mills (or wherever chains were first used) whirling round unchecked 2 inches from someone's ankle still be acceptable?

There's no doubt that chain tech has improved over the years - the days of finding the reason my 250 Suzuki stopped on the motorway was because all the teeth had worn off the engine sprocket or that a brand new chain was worn past the point of adjustment in under three weeks have mainly gone. For me though the improvements have not been good enough. Maybe 'diamond coating' might improve things even more but tbh making the whole thing out of diamond wouldn't really fix the problem, that every long trip I go on with a chain driven bike has chain concerns of one form or another sooner or later.

just a little point about gearing .....Most motor bikes( with good old CHAINS ) are geared for 2 people and all there luggage
So if you ride solo , you can often go up one teeth on front sprocket !
And use plenty of old engine oil for long life ! that is the chain !

is there anything wrong with an enclosed chain - all the advantages of the shaft but the efficiency of chain. The last one I can remember seeing was on my brother’s MZ 250 - though that was 35 years ago and it wasn’t new then.

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You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.

I THINK it's considered just plain ugly - but, could be wrong. I think they're great, seen them on all sorts of bikes, old Japanese bikes, Bultaco Metralla, CZ, Jawa etc. I seem to remember even old British bikes had various versions too. Chain life with them was huge.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

What a pity my insightful, amusing and entertaining forensic dissection of the whole chain issue was lost when my iPad battery went flat earlier.

Instead I'll just mention that dribbling a line of old engine oil chain fling onto my drive as I depart, confident that my chain is lubed to within an inch of its life, isn't going to be conducive to marital harmony.

I agree you can play with sprockets and gearing but I wonder how many people actually do (track bikes and 'exotics' notwithstanding). It seems to be something you do when you're trying to squeeze a few more mph out of your 125 when you're 17/18 (or 67/68 in my case ) but give up on when you buy a faster bike.

I can't believe that 60+yr old MZ chain tube tech still seems to be the state of the chain protection art. Their patents must have run out by now so it must be a matter of more than access that stops any other manufacturer taking it on. That nobody has even tried - even among the numerous zombie manufacturers / hipster customisers - speaks volumes for where chains rate in their priorities.

I'm not sure what the average annual bike mileage is these days (I suspect it's fairly low - in the UK at least) but if you're only doing a few thousand fair weather summer miles on a bike then current chain tech is probably good enough to get you from delivery day to trade in. Its only for our type of use that chains - and sprockets - become an issue yet I don't remember seeing any of the overland prep supply companies taking chain protection on board. No aftermarket MZ type solutions or anything like that, only X ring / 'diamond hard' chains and computer controlled (!) chain oilers filled with 'sperm oil' (or was that snake oil - maybe I misremember it) to really glue the dirt on. Sure it all kind of works in an irresistable force meets immovable object sort of way but its come about in the same way that Darwinian evolution works; you rarely get the best result, just something good enough.

Well, when looking at their website (https://www.reginachain.net/business...ional/?lang=de) the diagram shows a 20% longer life. To me it looks like Regina Marketing misinterprets their own diagrams.

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Wauschi, I can't see that anywhere for the DLC chains? Am I missing something? They're not mentioned on that page at all, I believe because BMW has an exclusive - for now.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Sorry, my mistake. When trying to do a fact check Google took me to the Z-Ring and I didn't read carefully enough. It turned out to be pretty hard to do a fact check on DLC.

THX for the correction.

Wauschi

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One life - live it

Coming back to this thread the note on BMW exclusivity adds to my caution. The Bavarian reputation for bodged engineering to get the showroom result they want is legendary, F650 chain undersized, no grease nipple on the Boxer spline etc. Or, they can go the other way and oversize it to guarantee success. They also love anything weird to talk about in the showroom however pointless and dropped later, variants of front ends, three button indicators, anti-shaft jacking measures etc.

I don't know where the S1000 sits in terms of design, its a bike I'd never look twice at. Its also not a bike thats going to meet salt, sand and the other stuff that wrecks chains on touring bikes. I'm guessing the chains wear when owners use the power at the traffic light GP. Do these owners really care, I bet they get through tyres and have eye-watering fuel and insurance costs ?

I want to see these chains used on a number of designs and applications before I draw a conclusion.

Andy

I know these kind of oilfree chains from wastewater treatment plants used in huge filtering devices. They are also used in the food industry in quite large and heavy maschines since years.

So not a really total new and untested product.
Why shoudn`t that work on motorcycles?

For me just a question of durability and costs.
And if it would suck en route, you can still use a classy chain, I think.

Edit about Regina:
https://youtu.be/MZuLo94lps8

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This little chap was a sponsored gift for my covid cancelled 2020 trip of the TCAT and I can't recommend it highly enough. A firm advocate of chain lubing after I did a trip to Istanbul and back on a 600lmf thumper using a £20 ebay dripper and not once having to tension up. Chains get a torturous life so go high end and lube up....

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I have the same chain oliler. Works great. Only downside is that you can't fill it up mid cycle. Have to empty it out before the next refill.

Definitely worth the money, beats spray can lubing. I also suspect that gear oil is better for the chain since it's not as sticky as other chain lubes.

It amazes me how many chain related gadgets are on the market. Not just oilers but tensioners, alignment devices, cleaners, a whole load of stuff. Oilers come in all shapes and forms from oil leaks (including a few bikes with designed in oil leaks to keep the chain lubed) up to stepper motors and programmed electronics.

If you're in the market for an oiler there's stuff ranging from garage scrap (my preferred option ) up to costing more than the bike and 'powered' by just about any source of energy you can think of - vacuum, air pressure, gravity, electric pumps, a few different sorts of manual + no doubt a few I haven't thought of. And to do what? Dribble oil onto a chain. That really is 1920's technology, along with girder forks, stirrup brakes and exposed valve gear.

We're 'forced' to do something otherwise chains (+sprockets) wear out prematurely and the adventure sector is particularly prone to problems because of a combination of long distances + light weight bikes. It just amazes me that some road safety organisation or other hasn't cottoned on to the fact that we're dropping oil on the public roads almost by design. It's now an MOT failure in the UK to have a car that drips oil yet we're buying gadgets that do it as part of their function.

Seems like the bemer chain does in fact need maintance. Mentioned on the latest episode of highside lowside: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g-...GWrYy1l8X4xiS_