Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Chat Forum > The HUBB PUB
The HUBB PUB Chat forum - no useful content required!

BUT the basic rules of polite and civil conduct which everyone agreed to when signing up for the HUBB, will still apply, though moderation will be a LITTLE looser than elsewhere on the HUBB.
Photo by Michael Jordan, enjoying a meal at sunset, Zangskar Valley, India

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Michael Jordan
enjoying a meal at sunset,
Zangskar Valley, India



Poll: HPE chains - a winner?
Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.
Poll Options
HPE chains - a winner?

Like Tree17Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Grant Johnson's Avatar
HU Founder
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 7,263
The end of chain lubing?

From a Regina Chain (Italy) press Release
(and BMW also announced the chain will be used on new BMW's - see below)

"Regina presents the innovative and revolutionary Z-Ring chain High Performance Endurance (HPE) which eliminates the periodic re-lubrication that motorcycle riders must perform every 1,000 km. Extensive lab and street testing demonstrate that the HPE chain has a useful life that is at least equivalent, if not greater, than a traditional regularly re-lubricated Z-Ring chain. The hydrogen-free Tetrahedral Amorphous Carbon (ta-C) coating, currently considered as the most advanced among DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coatings, is applied on the surface of the bushings and rollers of the HPE chain. The ta-C coating reduces energy dissipation and increases efficiency in the secondary transmission, combining the very high hardness of the coated surface with a low coefficient of friction. The elimination of chain cleaning and lubricant spatter during operation minimizes environmental impact. The innovative ta-C coating process was developed through intense R&D activity of Regina engineers and is entirely carried out in our Cernusco Lombardone (LC) plant in Italy."


“The elimination of the periodic re-lubrication and the greater efficiency of the transmission raise the HPE chain to an extremely advanced technological level compared to traditional sealed chains, unthinkable until today and unparalleled on the market;” said Paolo Garbagnati, CEO of Regina. “We would like to thank all the women and the men who made the achievement of this important goal possible, including all the passionate riders, who, confidentially and professionally, contributed to the project with many extensive test rides.”
"HPE chain transmission does not need coated front and rear sprockets. The HPE chain will be available on the aftermarket starting January 2021"


From BMW:

"Lubricating your chain was yesterday. Maintenance-free like the shaft drive for the first time.

Munich. For more than 90 years, the maintenance-free, environmentally friendly and comfortable shaft drive has been one of BMW Motorrad's immovable technical cornerstones. With the M Endurance chain, BMW Motorrad now offers a maintenance-free chain with comparable characteristics for the first time.

Like previous X-ring chains, the M Endurance chain has a resident permanent lubricant filling between the rollers and pins, enclosed by X-rings. What is completely new, however, is that the previously necessary additional lubricant addition for the rollers and thus the familiar "chain lubrication" is no longer necessary, nor is any re-tensioning required from time to time due to the usual wear.

This enormous gain in comfort was made possible by using a new coating material for the rollers: tetrahedrally amorphous carbon (ta-C), also known as industrial diamond. This coating is characterized by extreme hardness and resistance and in this respect it is placed between the well-known DLC coating (Diamond Like Carbon) and pure diamond. In contrast to the metal surfaces used so far, the coating with the ta-C industrial diamond does not wear off. At the same time, this type of coating also offers a drastically reduced friction coefficient.

Thanks to excellent dry lubrication properties and the elimination of wear, the tetrahedral amorphous carbon coated rollers of the M Endurance chain offer maintenance comfort equivalent to that of a shaft drive motorcycle. This includes all the cleaning work that is unavoidable with a conventional chain due to splashed lubricant. Accordingly, the M Endurance chain also offers maximum environmental friendliness.

The M Endurance chain in 525 pitch is now available initially for the two 4-cylinder models BMW S 1000 RR and S 1000 XR. The M Endurance chain is available as accessory or directly from the factory as an option. Further BMW Motorrad models are being prepared for this feature."

--------------------

So, what do you think? What about the lack of lube where the rollers hit the sprockets - conventional wisdom is that oil there reduces shock and therefor wear? Will this be harder on sprockets? Should you lube a little anyway? Is this the end of shaft drives?
__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.

------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wessex, UK
Posts: 2,136
If these chains prove to be as good as Regina claim it can only be a step foreward, I wonder if they have worked with coated sprockets as well and whether that improve life expectancy and efficiency even more.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 3,931
I'm content to wait and see. For one thing, I seldom lubricate my chains anymore--I clean them crudely (WD40), then let them suffer. They still last a long time. For another, the new chain reportedly costs US$300+. That's going to buy me a lot of DID x-ring chains, with change leftover for a sixpack of WD40.

If I find one under the Christmas tree, I'll install it.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Tartu, Estonia
Posts: 1,085
Depends on how much it costs - but I can certainly see it being used on new bikes from the factory. "Come back to the dealer and replace with an OEM chain that does not require lubrication, unlike all those third-party chains!" Of course, eventually this will be cheap and available in the aftermarket everywhere.

Natural progression of engineering and materials science. Wonderful.

I don't think it will quite replace shaft drives, because it's still not completely maintenance-free - you still have to check and adjust tension, which is a much more scary process for non-technical bike owners than squirting some spray on the chain...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 2,107
Looks interesting as an advance and the marketing certainly ramps up the expectation to, well, as fever pitchy as bike chain marketing gets - I've seen it in a few other places as well. If it works (or works better than the current offerings) then great but I remain to be convinced it'll do what the advertising claims - no lubing. Maybe under certain limited circumstances - summer sun sports bike doing limited mileage to and from Starbucks and traded in every couple of years - for example but I await the judgement of the first person to use it RTW.

Having said that there's no doubt bike chain tech has improved over the decades. The stuff around when I first started was terrible - we wore out a chain in a bit over 4k touring miles - on a 250 - despite daily oiling. Every second article in the magazines was about chain care - anyone remember 'Linklyfe' (a kind of grease bath where you took your chain off and boiled it up in the stuff). Thankfully O rings and X rings and the other upgrades have got rid of all that mess. If Z rings move it on again then I'm all for that but I guess it's going to be 'premium product, premium price' for a while until the hype dies down.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
Mechanical minutiae to keep the forums buzzing over the winter and sell a few unnecessary parts to the early adopters.

I'm with Mark, current chains need a wipe down once in a while and get replaced every few tyres, just a known running cost. A simple payback calculation to me, if it costs twice as much but lasts three times longer OK, but then will I just be handing over what I spent to the next owner as I rarely keep a bike more that 30000 miles. If it has to be dealer fitted that's against it.

The faffers with their Scot oil, cans of teflon spray, lazers, plumb bob monkey things and bowstring tight chains will still faff. What your mother told you will still apply, keeping playing with it and it'll fall off.

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 818
I'm another who will be happy to let others try it out before I put my own money there. Modern X-ring chains are pretty damn good and don't require copious amounts of lube.... for the money I can live with doing a spray once a week, and if it helps sprocket life that's a plus.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 2,107
Quote:
"plumb bob monkey things"

TWB: what is that? do I need one? how often do I have to replace it
You don't have one? I'm amazed your bike runs. Wouldn't be without mine
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
"plumb bob monkey things"

TWB: what is that? do I need one? how often do I have to replace it


https://youtu.be/3COrt4XMbfU

The 20 quid alternative to using your thumb (or just waiting until the throttle only results in a hammering noise and not much go)

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 5 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: midlands uk
Posts: 225
The idea is flawed ! no lubrication on front or rear sprocket. recently sold crf1000 with 33,000 miles and only adjusted chain once . I used a small tube and let this drip on to front sprocket . This works even better on a small 250 as it keeps it well oiled !!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 6 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Posts: 1,049
Weren't belt drives supposed to address this issue?

I'll have to ponder before casting a vote, but it does seem likely that sprocket wear will continue to be a problem, meaning the same coating on those too for this to be worthwhile.

I'd also add that being a scottoil faffer has always addressed the lubing issue for me, whilst also protecting the sprockets. They do make chain adjustment almost redundant.

I think the only area this will have a discernible difference (if you're a consistent rider) is fuel consumption, assuming their claims of lower friction are true, but even then the savings will be cents per fill-up if I have to guess.

I like innovation so, in this respect, I'm not against the idea, but I am very aware of the line where marketing gets hyperbolic in its claims. And blanket statements like "chain lube is dead" makes me raise an eyebrow or three....


Overall, I think that, whilst the chain's qualities are no doubt based in fact, the main selling point is peace of mind for the owner. A sense that they need not bother with the chain anymore and the dealership technicians can worry about tension and sprockets at the 4000km services.
__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Last edited by Warthog; 6 Oct 2020 at 09:38.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 6 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 310
A lifetime chain?

You bet! If it works and it's not grossly overpriced, I'll use one and happily so.

I'm keep an eye on this.

Now, another 10,000 miles on a good rear tire? I'd like to see that too.

..................shu
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 7 Oct 2020
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 270
Will it rust/corrode?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 8 Oct 2020
Snakeboy's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,485
If I put such a chain on my bike, on long trips I will bring some snake oil, just in case.....
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 14 Oct 2020
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,666
I'm familiar with DLC. (Diamond like coating).

BMW put it on the cams of their S1000R series bikes. They can make the cams much lighter that way.

The coating fails all the time and destroys the top-ends.

So that's the DLC on Cam shafts in their top of the range sports bikes. Using the best factory processes.

I can't see the DLC on a chain being applied so well or of the same quality.

The marketing blurb looks like the same that you see on Diamond tipped Drill bits. Those that promise so much for £10 and they're all blunt within 30 seconds.
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Finding Freedom...World Wide Ride saralou Ride Tales 3473 24 Jan 2024 02:40
FOR SALE Santiago Chile end of July. Suzuki DR650 fully equipped, US plates. Or Argentina dvvjd Bikes sell / want, South America 5 5 Aug 2019 20:47
Transalp 650 v3 Chain TT Transalp Honda Tech 1 20 Mar 2015 19:55
OEM or not? ridetheworld The HUBB PUB 10 12 Dec 2014 00:22
Stuck in Tashkent, need chain tools jparke Northern and Central Asia 16 21 Aug 2012 17:22

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

2025:

  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025!

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:55.