I think this is a really interesting thread it's interesting to see everyone else's replies as well and could be a great resource for others I'm new to travelling overland in the respect of using green lanes and stuff like that.

I think alot of it is about compromise I'm on a Honda 300 Rally now which I think's a really good compromise bike wise.

For reference point I've had 30 motorcycles an in order ADV wise I've had:

Bmw 1200 GSA TE 2014, Suzuki V-Strom 1000XT, BMW F800GS (at the time I thought that was a small bike compared to the other two) Suzuki V-Strom 650xt 2020 absolutely loved that on the road. Ktm 390 adv unfortunately rejected for refund at 269 miles along with dads at 147 miles due to issues with tech faults an build issues,

that lead onto a R1200GS TE Rallye but with my permanent shoulder injury the return to a GS started aggravating it so that after 8 weeks had to go which was at the time a shame. Then a Himalayan that was also refunded at 500 miles full off issues.

A few other bikes I've had have been a 1927 Norton 16h 500cc flat tanker (current ride) 1967 650 SS Norton which is a 650 twin been my daily rider for the past 4 years inc winters as I don't have a car, 68 Commando an a Yamaha rd350lc.

In the past I've had superbikes 750s and 1000s an ex iom TT race bike, rzv500r v4 two stroke, rd250lc's, rd250c's so quite a bit of variety in engine CC aircooled liquid cooled, twin's singles v4's two strokes and 4 strokes through the generation's light an heavy bikes 675 triples etc an ive ridden 750 triples both two and 4 stroke.

I'd love to see Honda do a 350 or 400 CC version of it I've always thought of the 350 as a very sweet point engine wise as a twin or a single.

It's been interesting having the 390 - Himalayan and 300 rally in very quick succession with a gs inbetween as comparing was very fresh in my mind. I think a slightly longer stroke 500 single but modern built with water cooling could be interesting.

My own take on what I look for in an all roads travel bike an I think this is the interesting point as everyone will be different with different levels of experience I would like to think I'm pretty experienced on road riding and track but with green laning and unsealed road riding it's a whole new aspect to my riding which has opened up a whole new world for me from a travel perspective and enjoyment in my riding, which has then lead to a total shift in what I look for in a motorcycle now.

Reliability being 1st as when I'm riding on my own, light weight this has been the biggest shift although it aligns with what I used to think when I preferred my rd250lc to my modern bikes(did 2,000 miles in a week on the 250lc regularly) luggage carrying capacity and some protection from the elements.

Ground clearance to is one I never thought about until experiencing the Himalayan and the Rally both on green lanes with the lane I did on the Rally being say a 3-4 difficulty (bump that up to 6 for my inexperience) and the Himalayan one being a 1 on the difficulty scale the light weight low power and ground clearance of the Rally lead to it being way more confidence inspiring which I guess leads into CC being on a scale of what is the most capable for the environment it's to be used in.

Ground clearance, engine design and CC also go hand in hand if you look at the bigger cc twins being more top heavy.

I've also come to the realisation as well I don't need the big power this is a personal thing in the way I like to ride a bike preferring a smaller more engaging ride, especially in the UK

we have seen a huge shift in number 1 the condition of the roads being very sub par, number 2 the smart motorways I did a 300 mile ride to Llanberis the other day on the 300 rally and on the way used a roads and on the way back used a section of motorway.

which for the entire length on the smart motorway was down to 40 - 50 - 60 and only hit 70 for a 4 mile section then it was back down to 50 for those that don't live over here those are covered in speed cameras, so now that shifted the smaller cc stuff to being more usable.

My own personal feeling now is that lighter weight and smaller CC is the way to go.

Which is my main bugbear with modern motorcycles at the moment huge weight, huge CC and big seat heights all leads to companies being able to charge more and more, more features more electronics etc means more add on package and a bigger otr price. The bikes that slew that being the CRF300 Rally and T7 interest me the most it's a shame the T7 didn't wind up being lighter like the prototype was rumoured to be. Which ultimately is pushing our amazing hobby further into elitism and away from the normal person.

I think weight more so than CC is the big huge difference, if you look at the weight of my gsa 1200 I had to the 300 rally the difference is immense, if you look at the difference in manageability from the Himalayan to the CRF300 Rally again the difference in weight more so than CC makes a huge huge difference.


So I think it's important that the ranges are filled out with lighter motorcycles look at the Yamaha ADV Range 1 motorcycle with different variants.

When I was initially looking at motorcycles for mine an dads trip to Norway Iceland and Morocco next year a 310GS was actually my first thought and when posting on Instagram out of the blue I actually got a message from someone at Bmw asking why I was considering the 310 and not the bigger bikes having had them as they couldn't understand it.

I think that's the shame really there's clearly a market for lighter smaller cc stuff as everyone get's older then can't manage the heavier stuff then for people my age and younger who are coming through and insurance is expensive etc, I had max no claims and no points an my smaller bikes are nearly as much as what I paid for a blade back when I was 22 on the insurance.

I think the smaller CC stuff has alot of advantage to it, lower weight, higher mpg no matter how much I rev the CRF300 Rally I'm getting 92mpg on it now the engine is loosening up at 600 miles. Lower cost more simple when it needs a refresh or a rebuild.

if we leave the Himalayan out of the equation for a moment and look at the 390 Adventure vs the 300 Rally from two different total approaches the 390 had the snap off speed but with that came heavy vibration at revs and less fuel economy than the rally, less ground clearance but better suspension the wheel sizes were better for the road, but the crf has better wheels for off road. Then the 390 had lots of tech which caused issue from the get go from a tech point of view I never got to take that off road.

I think the 300 Rally nails the brief, light for an adv bike low power, all routes capable, motorway capable (in the uk) smooth but a fun engine on the road and good on the rough stuff with a decent tank range and amazing mpg. It'd be interesting if they did a bigger CC one but then again we would be back into more weight or shorter service intervals. It's al a trade off though the one thing they really missed I know everyone mentions the suspension and rightly so but the seat is atrocious lol although better than the Himalayan one.

I think alot comes down to engine design and compromise of that one thing that's utterly shocked me with the Honda unit is just how smooth it is I was on the Motorway the other day 68mph half the revs to go in 6th and it was smooth it's amazing in some ways having ridden stuff from 1927 motorcycles haven't progressed as much as you think in some ways but have in others it always fascinates me.

If I was at a motorcycle company I'd produce a very modern 400 single a slightly longer single with counterbalancers with 40hp and a 500 twin similar to the CRF500L's some people are building wasn't the T7 meant to be much lighter when it was first rumoured.

it's fascinating learning from you all an obviously this is just my take coming from the perspective of a road and track rider making a few ricks in my choice of adv bikes and finally settling on something that's manageable, reliable, with not to much power and a sensible seat height with the overly soft suspension if needs be I can get both feet down an the same when I fit rally raid level 1.

That's my thoughts on CC currently and how it relates to what I now personally look for in a motorcycle and how CC and weight relate into that.

I think the top 3 current bikes and current available CC in my mind are.

The Honda CRF300 Rally thats my top pick and where I decided to spend my money.
The Yamaha T7 is one im curious about although I've heard they are top heavy which leads back to weight and CC.
The Ktm 690 / Husky 701 is interesting although I personally prefer a cable throttle. It's hard to ignore it's power to weight though.

It's mad that the groundwork for the bikes we are all fancying have been done in the 70s and 80s/90s but with a few modern tweaks could be amazing to the design of the bikes without adding tech.