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10 Sep 2013
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I have to agree with most of the comments here.
Most vehicles that are sold around the world are made to be practical for their surroundings and where they are most likely to be used. As road networks expand, and populations become more urban, the Honda Civic becomes more important.
The simple, mechanically based engines with few bells and whitstles will be more of a thing of the past. Aside from the overlanding and rock crawling communities, few people will EVER push their trucks even close to the limit of what they can actually do. Marketing though is the big reason why a truck has massive towing capacity....not because we NEED it, but because we THINK we need it.
To me, the advent of 3-D printers will be a HUGE boon to the overlanding area where people can more easily produce one-off designs and really start to customize their rigs. Right now we are really dependent on a few really smart engineers and some great companies like OME for developing the next hot thing.
I think a lot of folks have great ideas and cool designs, just no real means for implementing them. I hope that 3-D printing is a way that people could literally start to make entire vehicles out of their garage. I have already read an article on one guy that re-made a classic car. Then you could have your brand new 1970s Toyota! How sweet would that be??
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11 Sep 2013
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NSW Australia
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The after-market world is immense, beast or beauty it's your choice. Older models can have extended lives and new can be bought in base models and personalised. There is no such thing as a best 4WD they're always a compromise, small or large, gadgetry or reliability they cannot be all things to all men. Yes, power will be hobbled with emission controls (better gearing might help) still, the making of modern road friendly shopping-tanks is partly welcomed by the hard core, everybody loves comfort and safety at high speed.
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17 Sep 2013
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpyrek
I have to agree with most of the comments here.
Most vehicles that are sold around the world are made to be practical for their surroundings and where they are most likely to be used. As road networks expand, and populations become more urban, the Honda Civic becomes more important.
The simple, mechanically based engines with few bells and whitstles will be more of a thing of the past. Aside from the overlanding and rock crawling communities, few people will EVER push their trucks even close to the limit of what they can actually do. Marketing though is the big reason why a truck has massive towing capacity....not because we NEED it, but because we THINK we need it.
To me, the advent of 3-D printers will be a HUGE boon to the overlanding area where people can more easily produce one-off designs and really start to customize their rigs. Right now we are really dependent on a few really smart engineers and some great companies like OME for developing the next hot thing.
I think a lot of folks have great ideas and cool designs, just no real means for implementing them. I hope that 3-D printing is a way that people could literally start to make entire vehicles out of their garage. I have already read an article on one guy that re-made a classic car. Then you could have your brand new 1970s Toyota! How sweet would that be??
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vehicles modified outside their original manufacturers specification are banned in some countries, and it will come in in others, so soon you probably won't be able to mod your vehicle
Relying on the local Toyota dealer in the depths of Angola to fix your all singing all dancing electrical everything landcruiser is probably folly, they will have neither the equipment nor the expertise as their versions of the vehicle will be very different, and of course, you can't actually use your SAT phone to drag it there to get fixed! You either do a bodge yourself to get it there or try and organise local recovery.
I would rather use a vehicle I have a chance of fixing myself, or that a local mechanic can fix, rather than freight something thousands of miles to be fixed like the Guy I heard about a few years ago who had to low load his rangerover several thousand miles when the immobiliser played up.
In the developed world there will be no more basic 4x4s made. public opinion and political pressure from environmentalists won't allow it.
But not to worry, in a few years the Chinese will have tarmacked Africa and you'll be able to drive there in your Toyota Pious. Those bits that do require a 4x4 we'll be banned from anyway by the environmentalists thanks to the idiots that treat other peoples countries as their own personal rally stage.
I was somewhat dismayed to read an article in Ride (I think) about an off road trip to Morocco with a group of Italian Bikers who thrashed around the countryside at high speed showing off to each other their prowess at pulling wheelies.
But hey, I guess all the sweets they threw at the local kids made that alright eh!!
Great work guys, thanks for the positive publicity
Travel now, because in 20 years time there will be a Tesco and mcDonalds in Timbuktu with a queue of campervans in the car park and the only trips into the desert will be with licensed tour companies
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19 Sep 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moggy 1968
I would rather use a vehicle I have a chance of fixing myself, or that a local mechanic can fix, rather than freight something thousands of miles to be fixed like the Guy I heard about a few years ago who had to low load his rangerover several thousand miles when the immobiliser played up.
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Shure, you can try to be to super hero who is able to fix most of problems by yourself.
You can also try to tell yourself, that the bushmechanic is able to help you when you use old hardware.
When you watch some Blogs of travellers you will find enough samples who the people stranded for a while, also using an Toyota HZJ 78. Too in Europe, watch ottos blog, linked at my blog.
You will find many samples of people, who get this way to the next big or main capital:
And yes, i had a look at at Toyota in Luanda, Angola:
I dont understand how the people focus that hard for an low tec car.
If you had an serios accident you had probably better chances in a car with 10 Airbag???
Do you not think, that the electronic helpers could help you to avoid an heavy accident???
Do you also prepare yourself against other problems who could happen on such a trip? What is about the bad boys with weapons who are searching for hostages to earn money? What is with the dangerous animals who lives there like scorpions and so on?
When you focus that way to low electric cars to avoid electrical problems - how can you travel throug africa, where a breakdown is one of the smallest problems you can get there?
Quote:
But not to worry, in a few years the Chinese will have tarmacked Africa and you'll be able to drive there in your Toyota Pious
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You can do it with a prius today, when you stay on the main roads and tracks. You dont need a 4x4.
Quote:
Travel now, because in 20 years time there will be a Tesco and mcDonalds in Timbuktu with a queue of campervans in the car park and the only trips into the desert will be with licensed tour companies
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Unfortunaty i think the same way at this point :-(
Surfy
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19 Sep 2013
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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The OP was about vehicles, not security issues which are covered elsewhere and I'm not going to go over old ground as to why I think your priorities are wrong.
Actually my mechanical knowledge is pretty limited, I thought an OBD2 was a character from Starwars! Which is why I don't drive a landrover  although up to now (fingers crossed) I have always managed to fix any problems I have had.
What I do though is try and drive a vehicle that will be familiar to the mechanics I may rely on enroute if something goes wrong. They are far more likely to be familiar with a basic vehicle, even if not the specific vehicle being driven than a 2012 Landcruiser.
I don't drive so fast on an expedition that I need electronic help to avoid an accident. Yes, my 2012 HIlux would be a lot safer at the same speed in the same accident, but in my Landcruiser I will be going a lot slower, so have less chance of having the accident in the first place and, if I do have one the lower speeds should mean it will be less severe. My Hilux has an Eur 5 safety rating, I don't know about the HJ60 because they didn't do them then, but it looks a lot tougher than my IQ3 which also has a 5!! And at least I don't have to worry about airbag failure, ABS failure or the myriad of other electronic bits that go wrong under the harsh conditions of dust, water and vibration found in much of Africa (and indeed on the tarmac roads of Europe) and which once back in the UK can render the vehicle an economic right off way before it's time (I know of several people who have had to scrap cars because of electronic problems that were going to be too expensive to fix. Not on an expensive new Landcruiser obviously, but eventually even that car will be subject to the basic laws of economics)
Another point to remember, Not everyone can afford to go out and buy a fancy new truck.
for years I didn't travel because I thought you needed to spend a fortune on a pups bits truck. The Plymouth Dakar Challenge changed all that for me. All the cars cost less than £100. Of the 20 in our group, every one made it to he Gambia.

It was then I realised you can do this cheaply, so I went out and bought myself an old HJ60, in the days you could still get a good one cheaply, and travelled in that.
Note the Halfords Tow rope, and Halfords roof bars. The tyres were ex military sand tyres for £35 each. The other truck sports a roof rack for a Volvo bought on ebay for £30. I did spend a few quid on new suspension for my truck, decent recovery points and a comprehensive service before we left. I had also owned this truck for about 2 years by this stage so knew it pretty well. familiarity with your vehicle is one of the key factors.
Now, I am in the position to have a nice vehicle, but I chose to spend the equivalent of what I bought my Hilux for new on my HJ60 because I believe that is the best truck for the job.
That truck you posted a piccie of looks like it has been in an accident so is pretty irrelevant to this discussion.
Any one can break down, anyone can end up having to leave their truck. I fully acknowledge that may happen to me but I believe my way reduces that risk. You believe your way does. We will never agree on it, although obviously I am right
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29 Sep 2013
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I was chatting to a couple of expedition truck builders at the adventure overland show. Their opinion was euro6 is the death knell for building overland vehicles based on new models. One of them said in reality anything after euro3 and you start running into problems.
they will now probably have to move into reconditioning older trucks to use on any trip going outside of Europe.
These are professionals working in a competitive market for many years so I respect their opinions.
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