That i totally agree with

And yes it does happen in KZ and UA that you can be pulled over for doing nothing wrong and asked for money. In my experience it doesnt happen in Russia anymore, and hasnt for 10 years or so. They (in RU) might pull you over and ask to check your documents, but only in KZ and UA have I had cops actually make up offences. In those cases obviously its a mind game. For a number of reasons, Ukraine and Kazakhstan are a lot more corrupt at that level than Russia.

Some russian friends have a policy ... tell (or make clear) to the cops that (1) you have plenty of time (2) you have no money (3) you are not afraid of pain.

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I had a number of cases of overt demands for money whilst in Kazakhstan. On two of those occasions I hadn't done anything to warrant it (ie hadn't broken the law) for me those were the occasions that pissed me off. The other times I did what I would normally do, try to talk my way out it.

Walter some of the "Western Style" bribery you mention offends me just as much any Eastern corruption and is just as bad IMHO.



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Need to make a clear distinction between getting pulled over for breaking a law (regardless of how trivial, and whether or not the locals do or don't obey that law) and getting pulled over to contribute to the officer's standard of living.

In the first case it is quite legitimate to try and talk your way out of it - and that happens all over the world on the assumption that the officer might give you a warning instead of a ticket - but if that fails then the correct fine has to be paid at the right place. What's to complain about?

Not legitimate to pay the officer a bribe to not write the ticket, if only because you are then breaking the law too.
In the last case, I have all the time in the world.

That said, there are always going to be situations where life or limb might be at stake, and in that case, nobody is going to expect everyone to follow a set of guidelines as to what to do or not to do.

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Tony
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Well if you break the law and get caught, why is the officers motives in pulling the trigger on the radar gun relevant to whether or not you deserve to pay some sort of a fine? :confused1:

I suspect in Russia and other countries, the police are paid a deliberately low income by the state because they are expected to supplement it via "tips". You are not so much supplementing his income by paying him, as you are part of the quota he needs to fulfil to feed his family.

If you dont want to legitimately get caught speeding, its pretty simple to avoid it. Either dont speed, or take back roads. Radar traps are only economically viable on well trafficked highways.

Traffic cops in Russia are not wealthy guys. They are pretty damn low in the food chain. They are not the Russians taking beach holidays in the South of France, or contributing to Jaguar / Range Rover's massive sales growth in Russia. Russia's is a rapidly growing economy where the average person has gone from an average income of 10% that of the west 12 years ago to 50-60% if the west now. Traffic cops are not part of that that dramatic rise. If you take away their supplementary income then the job becomes pretty close to non-viable.

Russian driving habits and traffic enforcement still has a long way to go. The state needs as many of them on the job as it can get. There is sometimes a contradictory set of complaints from foreigners in Russia ... that the standard of locals following traffic rules sux, and that traffic police's willingness to penalise them (the foreigners) for breaking the traffic laws sux. Its illogical to complain about both. The reality is that the locals do not follow traffic rules as critically as western drivers, which should mean we APPLAUD the traffic police for being out there enforcing the rules !

I still have plenty of occasions in Russian cities where I get cut off by drivers cutting across lanes or pushing in front at traffic lights when I am yelling in my helmet "where are the damn traffic cops?"

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What's to complain about? Have you ever gotten a ticket in Russia? First of all you generally have to go to the bank and pay a fine, which would be no problem except for two minor details:
1) depending on the violation, often they won't let you take your bike until you can show your receipt, so you have to take a cab or some other form of transport;
2) unless you are in a city, you might need to go quite a long way to get to a bank, and then back to your bike;
3) penalties for some violations are very harsh; IIRC you can lose you license for six months for passing in a no passing zone (before you say that that sounds reasonable, you have to see all of the wide-open stretches of road in Russia which are no-passing zones).

all in all, it is a system designed to encourage drivers to settle things on the spot one way or another.

things are changing here, however, and I expect that pretty soon motorists will be able to instantly pay traffic fines from the roadside via mobile phone, and that will be a real game-changer.

In the meantime, as Colebatch says, it is just not common any more to be asked for a bribe in Russia if you haven't done anything wrong. In fact, in the last five years or so, I'm not sure it has happened to me even once. Therefore, if you are flashing cash every time you get pulled over in Russia you're certainly doing something wrong.

Well i think that is a pretty bold statement to make, if i feel a bride is needed i will pay it.

On one border crossing they started to strip my bags to check and at the top i had a pair of wrist protectors i never used and the guy searching was a big body builder type guy and thought they where for weight training and as i did not use them i gave them to him and he let me go saving me pulling all my crap out my bags and repacking

In another country at 3am i was riding well over the speed limit breaking the law and the police officer who pulled me over was right in doing so, i was in the wrong so instead of going into all the paper work a bride worked find. i was tired and just wanted to move on, he was happy and i was happy

I got to another border and i lost some paper work, this was sorted out quickly also.

If i break the law or i am missing some paperwork then why not? i am the one in the wrong so if i feel i need to sort this out quicker then i will

And as for getting pulled over just to get money of me i think it all depends how you act? i have so far traveled though 17 countries on my bike including the ones where these apparent harassing for money takes places. i think a firm handshake and smile does a lot and then i usually just stay awhile to shoot the shit.i was even drinking (one may i add) with the police after stopping to ask for directions.