Thats just an incredible statement.

How can you possibly justify that?

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Far be it from me to cast aspersions about someone I don't know a thing about, then again it just goes to show the infinite depth of your obvious inability to ........ get the big picture! Ever been told to relax your sphincter from the blindingly obvious choke hold it has around your neck ? I wont hold my breath but ........ try decipher some of the following!

The Many Ways Banks Commit Criminal Fraud | Zero Hedge

The Many Ways Banks Commit Criminal Fraud



Submitted by George Washington on 07/03/2012 20:57 -0400




The Libor scandal seems to be waking people up to manipulation and fraud by the big banks. There are many other types of fraud they've engaged in as well ... Here is a partial list:

• Committing massive and pervasive fraud both when they initiated mortgage loans and when they foreclosed on them (and see this)

• Pledging the same mortgage multiple times to different buyers. See this, this, this, this and this

• Cheating homeowners - especially veterans - from laws meant to protect people from unfair foreclosure

• Engaging in mafia-style big-rigging fraud against local governments. See this, this and this

• Cooking their books

• Bribing and bullying ratings agencies to inflate ratings on their risky investments

• Pushing investments which they knew were terrible, and then betting against the same investments to make money for themselves. See this, this, this and this

• Engaging in unlawful "frontrunning" to manipulate markets. See this, this, this, this, this and this

• Engaging in unlawful "Wash Trades" to manipulate asset prices. See this, this and this

• Otherwise manipulating markets. And see this

• Shaving money off of virtually every pension transaction they handled over the course of decades, stealing collectively billions of dollars from pensions worldwide. Details here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here andhere

• Participating in various Ponzi schemes. See this, this and this

• Laundering money for drug cartels. See this, this and this (indeed, drug dealers kept the banking system afloat during the depths of the 2008 financial crisis)

• Owning and largely running the Federal Reserve ... which is itself arguably a Ponzi scheme

But at least the big banks do good things for society, like loaning money to Main Street, right? Actually:

• The big banks no longer do very much traditional banking. Most of their business is from financial speculation. For example, less than 10% of Bank of America’s assets come from traditional banking deposits. Instead, they are mainly engaged in financial speculation and derivatives. (and see this)

• The big banks have slashed lending since they were bailed out by taxpayers ... while smaller banks have increased lending. See this, this and this

• A huge portion of the banks' profits comes from taxpayer bailouts. For example, 77% of JP Morgan’s net income comes from taxpayer subsidies

• The big banks are literally killing the economy ... and waging war on the people of the world

• And our democracy and republican form of government as well

Good Lord !

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind."

It's difficult to grasp ANY picture when citing or supporting so many arguments that are so FACTUALLY wrong . . . that's it's nearly embarrassing to point it out.

When this sort of thing happened in my graduate classes or in my own training sessions I remember the phrase - "I'm sorry, you've apparently registered for the wrong class. You don't belong here . . . "

Customer deposits are NOT assets ! The only banks which hold a majority of liabilities in customer deposits are either in non-capitalist societies, narco-democracies, or . . . otherwise unsophisticated financial systems . . . which I'm sure we can agree have fewer PUBLIC scandals (about anything). And therefore, if a bank-basher, must be a better place to live, work be educated and seek health care.

Or not.

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Orange, it's the new black.

See Drwnite's comprehensive answer & try not to take this discussion personally because it is certainly not meant as a personal slight on you. I have heard of some heart warming stories of bankers such as the one that spent his money on opening an orphanage in India - there just seem to be a lot more about that are blaggards and rotters.

I have worked in Banking, Construction and Technology Industries.

The biggest fraud I witnessed in my time was in the construction industry, should I therefore draw the conclusion that construction industry workers has more bad eggs than any other? Of course not.

Saying bankers have more bad eggs based on Libor thing or Bernie Madoff is the same thing. Remember the LIBOR thing involved a handful of individuals as did Bernie Madoff. I haven't gone through everything Drwnite posted but most of it is rubbish or acts of individuals. Millons of people word wide work in this sector.

Saying CDOs were some sort gross corporate fraud is wrong - I would say it was a too smart by half way of minimising risk, like many things that are too smart by half it didn't quite work out, bit like traction control on dirt bikes, sounds great, until you have to power up a loose hill and the traction control cuts the power.

I just don't buy that these were created to expressly rip investors off, guess what big companies do dumb things.
You can either choose to believe:
- that CDOs were created as part of vast conspiracy, involving boards, CEOs, securities dealers etc all working together to create financial instruments that were designed to fail and sold to investor on this basis.
- or that CDOs were created to repackage debt to better manage default risks, but actually when combined with lax lending practices had the reverse effect.

The first an act of maliciousness on a grand scale, the second carelessness.

To me the second is much easier to believe.

Bank bashing is just lazy.

Want to see a world without banks, look at the former Soviet Union, they had "scientists, engineers, mathematicians, teachers, farmers, heavy equipment operators, politicians, lawyers and (yes) soldiers", in some cases the best in the world, hardly led world living standards (or mostly innovation). Banks and the things the facilitate is the difference.


Anyway, Walter rather than arguing about banking, I believe you have a ride report to complete.

.............. let the buyer beware.

I would like to think that this thread will be of some use to the youthful individuals among us - including those who come to view this in the future (when I am long dead and buried) in order to better understand what they are not taught in their main stream education.

I believe that it is still too early to say if the collaterised debt obligations (CDO) have been as you prefer to view it; to give the benefit of the doubt to that system.
For me, the jury is still out.

Maybe you could elaborate on the "second half" of the circumstances that Markharf suffered under - the credit default swaps that underpinned the risk taking of the CDOs?

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Dave