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15 Dec 2015
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hi andy yes a nice bike ,i should have made the point that i meant ENDURO style bikes,why has the super tenere 1200 got shaft and tubeless tyres and the 660 not,the bmw 1200 both but the 650/800 not,the aprillia caponord shaft drive and tubeless tyres,i have always thought there has been a lost opportunity for a simple air cooled,shaft drive,tubeless tyre,smallish enduro styled bike,i thought when bmw hinted back in 1992 i think about a baby gs (r80/100 air cooled ,shaft drive,tubeless tyres) ,YES i thought a change,but what we got was a liquid cooled single with chain drive and tubed tyres funduro (the same as all the other makers),in my mind nothing like a baby gs,and here we are in 2015/6 with the same being offered ,small bike = chains and tubes and big bikes = shaft and tubeless ,steve
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15 Dec 2015
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The carbed F650 was the worst possible combination, TL tyres with something that made the bead a real swine to break (possibly a retaining profile) with a tube to stop you using plugs. The only advantage was that the waterpump failed before I got a puncture!
Andy
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15 Dec 2015
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since starting riding (from 79) ive always hoped a sort of road version of a moose would be available,a sort of fit and forget till the tyre needs changing item,but alas no ,my first bike a yamaha dt100,brought new i had for 18 months before it was stolen,in that time i did 18,800 and had either 11 or 13 punctures,i cant remember for sure now,one of them made by a 4" section of car chrome metal side trim (before the plastic side stripes) that i found inside the tube,and have had other punctures since then ,even with slime in, so for me a road going moose would be perfect, not to stop the puncture in the first place but not having to fix it after,just keep riding ,steve
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15 Dec 2015
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very good subject really . Some points
1) As I ride since 70 or 71, i had seen a lot of improvments in tubes, tyres and so, not in vulcanization stuff, in these years even in the smallest villages of Greece you may find some little shop .
So something like a bib mousse was a topic for me since the first time I heard about it. After 2 falls because of front tire deflated in 2 Sec' 
So I had been riding on roads with tubeless since 92 or something , with one puncture  without worry.
2) As i was going back on trails, pistes, and so , I had wondered around :
- my mechanics, former rider in cross and enduro, said no need , hard to fix an dont support more than 1,2 kg ; take reinforced no problem. I had no problem 
3) all the pros ( tours and guides ) I had seen in Morocco use BIB mousse on light bikes : DR, DRZ, KTM, and so .
Did not meet enough GS to ask ( just one on an easy trail ) 
I had my day also in Burundi; : 3 punctures in one day, 2 back wheel .
nice with hte heat, the grispters, the fatigue ... nice also to be young 
I fell asleep while fixing my gear for maybe  two hours, fix it, go on the bike and ride down a village .
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15 Dec 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
There's been lots of comments on this thread as to the benefits of tubes, but no enlightenment re my question on the original post as to why BMW, Triumph, Yamaha and KTM will offer tubeless on some models of bikes and not on others. I can only think it's a 'marketing position' type of decision.
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I think you've got it spot on Tim. Big tough ADV bikes are meant to have spokes, so OEM's give punters what they want ... and still offer tubeless convenience. Spokes look "cool", the marketers love that.
Obviously there are compromises and trade offs on these spoked tubeless systems. Pure spoked rims are stronger than cast, but only alternative to tubes are Bibs or converting to tubeless wheel. (questionable)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
I ended up going with Michelin Bib mousses coupled with Michelin Desert tyres and have been running my first set now for close on 10,000km. I took the mousses out recently to have a look and they are still in good condition.
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Bib Mousse are a great solution ... if you have the funds and ability to remove and install them. They seem also to do a pretty good job at protecting rims yet give you the feel when riding of "around" 12 to 14 PSI. Perfect.
I always discounted them because the only info I ever heard about was from Dakar ... where we would hear of them "melting". Dakar guys changed them everyday when the race was held in Africa.
But I realize that at NON race pace Mousse's can last a LONG LONG TIME
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1 Jan 2016
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I'd say there is more money to be made in selling big bikes. That way, the big bikes get the more expensive extras. A lot of people will want the extras so get a big bike (which might make a part of your body appear bigger ? ) so the smaller bikes get less extras.
Me. I'll just get off the bike, take the riding gear off, light me a cigarette and get on with changing the tube on my little bike after I've found me the other half of the center stand.
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1 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
If you get a puncture in a tubeless tyre you can be back on the road within 20 minutes.
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Yes and you will be having another puncture two days later. These plugs dont surwife serios riding very long so i allways endet up with a tube inside of my tubeless tire. In Asie I have seen people fixing a tube within minutes without taking the wheel out...
http://schoene-motorradreisen.de/?re...op&design=dark
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2 Jan 2016
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I suppose that *might* be the case with some plug-type solutions, but the mushroom head Stop 'n Go solution has proven to be reliable. I've used it on both motorbikes and 4x4s with the plugs remaining in place until the tyre eventually is replaced at end of life.
A puncture patch on a butyl rubber tube fixed with just glue often doesn't hold in hot climes. Ideally it needs to be vulcanised per the photo much higher up in this thread.
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2 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
I suppose that *might* be the case with some plug-type solutions, but the mushroom head Stop 'n Go solution has proven to be reliable. I've used it on both motorbikes and 4x4s with the plugs remaining in place until the tyre eventually is replaced at end of life.
A puncture patch on a butyl rubber tube fixed with just glue often doesn't hold in hot climes. Ideally it needs to be vulcanised per the photo much higher up in this thread. |
I've had a Stop & Go kit on board for 10 years. The times I tried to use it, had some trouble. But I think it's me rather than the kit. Lent it to a friend to plug his GS tire ... he couldn't make it work either. Takes practice and proper technique me thinks. ??
I've had better luck with common "String" type rubberized/fiber plugs sold at auto parts stores (USA). I'm more used to these. With String Plugs you can sort of "custom" size the string (or strings) to match size of hole. TIP: Use a TON of rubber cement!
I've only done some rough Baja tracks with tire plugs fitted on Vstrom rear tire. Never caused problems. Rode tire down to nothing, plug held. Only had ONE plug leak in last 20 years ... pulled it out, replaced with another, all good.
Tested to 140 mph. 
Tire nearly done ... plug holding. 70mph on this dirt road.
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3 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
Tire nearly done ... plug holding. 70mph on this dirt road.
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Yes i was talking about serios offroad like streets in India with big holes and sharp edges etc were the tire gets bend. So far a plug never made this very long. First I replaced them again and again but the final solution was allways a tube...
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3 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
There's been lots of comments on this thread as to the benefits of tubes, but no enlightenment re my question on the original post as to why BMW, Triumph, Yamaha and KTM will offer tubeless on some models of bikes and not on others. I can only think it's a 'marketing position' type of decision.
I ended up going with Michelin Bib mousses coupled with Michelin Desert tyres and have been running my first set now for close on 10,000km. I took the mousses out recently to have a look and they are still in good condition.
The rear tyre will need changing soon, might put the old mousse back in.
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Tim what bike have you been using with the mousses, what sort of riding you been doing, it's just I was thinking of using them on a tour across Russia this year. I'm was put off by what's been said about how and where they should be used,
It's interesting to find they have been in you tyre for a year as the manufacture gives it a shelve life.
If the answers are positive I may have to rethink about using them again,
My bike is a xt 600 Tenere I'll be running tk80 from Greece. from uk I'll be using a road going tyre. I've got two sets of wheels.
My brother lives in corfu he drives over in May every year so he is taking a set of wheels over with some other equipment
Thanks
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3 Jan 2016
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It's on a KTM 690R, see photos here.
I took a great deal of advice from Mike54 and others on a similar thread to this over at AdventureBikeRider.
It's important to get a good match between the tyre and the mousse. The Michelin Desert + Michelin BIB mousses are difficult to fit but long lasting. Not having to carry four tyre levers, two spare inner tubes, an electric tyre inflator, bead buddy, valve puller and bike stand saved a lot of space and weight.
I have to say I ride quite slowly to avoid heat buildup which is what destroys the tyres and mousses, so I'm typically doing 70-80 kph on roads, with occasional 100 kph. They are rated up to 120 kph and I've done that for short intervals but the temperature was below freezing at the time.
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3 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
I have to say I ride quite slowly to avoid heat buildup which is what destroys the tyres and mousses, so I'm typically doing 70-80 kph on roads, with occasional 100 kph. They are rated up to 120 kph and I've done that for short intervals but the temperature was below freezing at the time.
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Hello Tim
A few questions:
What was the mileage of that combination (Michelin Desert + Michelin BIB)?
Can the Michelin BIB survive several tyres?
How did you feel the "airpressure", it sais 0.9, enough for the protection of the rim?
Thanks sushi
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3 Jan 2016
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Just finished reading the two links you posted Tim it seams that it's possible to ride with the Michelin Bib mousses on a a long distance tour.
I think there's a few things to take into consideration correct fitting right tyre combination, I think I'll stick with the plan to ride on to greese on a pair of slicks from there I will have to consider my options,
Tim when you finished your trip on the Michelin Bib mousses last year what's your thoughts on them,
Did you feel the bike moved around with and without luggage, was the bike stable in corners on the road or did it move a little.
I think on the xt600 speed is not going to be a issue 60-70 is about its cruising speed, once in the stans I'm not going to be doing speed more like quick trails.
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3 Jan 2016
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What a fuss
I think Dutchgit has the right idea. I do like your branch-stand!
The weight of a few levers, a pump etc. really is very little when you longhaul it. I would recommend to everyone to learn to take your tube out and repair it. Too much tech can also work against you and IMHO, I can´t see using mousses on long trips. I can see their benefits on short trips to Morocco but I have never hear of anyone using these on long distance travels. Do correct me if I am wrong-
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