Thanks for posting all this very interesting info. I, for one, appreciate it.

My Honda asks for a minimum SG quality oil. I found a 10/40 supermarket semisynthetic motorcycle oil which is rated SJ - which is above this minimum. This oil costs 4 euros (£3-ish) a litre. But I don't know if it contains the ideal additives mentioned by the Silkolene man. He suggests a semisynth, but of quality. How do I know it's quality? It seems the answer is cost.

I'd better start hunting for another oil? Do we get value for money from the big names, or are they cashing in on a name?

Problems problems!!!!

Well, with oil you get what you pay for and it's what's not in the oil that matters as addative packs vary in quality too. Many oils are made to a budget because in many applications it does not matter, afterall "any oil is better than no oil".

The problems tend to start with wet clutches and many cheaper oils (mainly car ones as opposed to proper bike ones) do not contain the correct additive pack and may contain friction modifiers which may cause slippage in the wet clutch.

If your bike has a wet clutch go for a bike oil that carries the correct JASO spec as it's designed for Japanese Motorbikes.

These are Japanese and International stanadards for Japanese bikes, I would personally always use a proper bike oil, more stable and contains the correct ingredients.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-773-motorcycle-oils.aspx

A semi-synthetic for ordinary road use and a fully synthetic if modified, used hard or off the road.

Cheers
Simon

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Check out the following link for oilman's previous sales pitches.

oilman uniform synthetic basestocks - Google Search

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Yes, but all this is the same typical sales talk. It is many times proven that things that are most expensive in their segment do not usually offer the best (or even near the best) price/performance ratio.

Where are independent test results that compare different oils? I'll start buying expensive full synth oil if I see proof that the cost is justified.

So this is all very interesting, and I'm enjoying learning a bit about motor oil formulations. Yes but however.....

Obviously, I don't need "friction modifiers" to keep my wet clutches from slipping. They don't slip. They've never slipped. I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that they won't ever slip....until past their wear specifications, at least....and I've used all sorts of oils, at all sorts of price points, in all sorts of circumstances all over three continents. So in the absence of information more compelling than a vendor's statement that I need friction modifiers because "many cheaper oils (mainly car ones as opposed to proper bike ones) do not contain the correct addative pack and friction modifiers to stop the wet clutch slipping," I think I'll pass. And while I'm at it, I might as well pass on the rest of the advice in the same posting--either you've got credibility when making unsubstantiated assertions, or you don't.

The paste from the oil chemist is a whole different story. He sounds believable throughout (although I have to ask how fundamentally important are the marginal benefits he's describing), but this leads me to wonder: how would I recognize "a 10W/40 shear-stable semi-synthetic with some ester content" if I stumbled over it? It's the reported shear-resistance of the Rotella synth (reported by folks on another forum who routinely send their used oil out for testing after each oil change) which convinced me to use it regularly when I'm in this country. How would I know what else to use?

I can't even believe I'm participating in an oil thread! What came over me? How will I regain my former highly-prized state of aloofness?

Mark

Oilman...

You obviously know your stuff


Can you explain multigrade oil ??? 10W40 vs 15W50 etc ??

What does the W exactly stand for... Some say its the weight some swear it means "winter" etc etc.

I thought that a 10W40 will act like a nice easy flowing 10W when its cold and only get as thin as a 40W when hot ! Am I right ???

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As I understand it its the other way round.

Car oils have friction additives because the engine and clutch are house eperately, as is the gearbox. The engine needs low friction, the gearbox needs shear resistance and the clutch needs, well nothing.

In motorcycles there are no such friction additives because most bikes have engine, box and clutch all bathed in the same oil. So the friction modifiers would not stop your clutch from slipping but would, in fact, make it more likely to slip, particularly if the clutch is starting to reach service limits.... that limit may be brought forward with car oils...

Hence why car oils in a wet clutch bike are best avoided, plus the fact that a car oil is probably not designed to deal with a gearbox thrashing about

That is my understanding...

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I found this informative article whilst looking for something else and thought it might be of interest to you folk:

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

It was written a couple of years ago and a few of the links towards the bottom are broken, but it's well written and an interesting read. Well, interesting if you're interested in oil ;-)

Cheers
Guy

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Oilman, just to say thank you for an interesting and useful posting.
Thanks for taking the time.