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  #1  
Old 23 Dec 2013
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Angry Registration Difficulties Through USA

Heya Hubbers

First off Merry Christmas to all you homeless buggas

Where ever you are we hope yo are enjoying the best of it, we are in Cajamarca Peru.

So, my question, Mayas rego runs out on the 31st Dec 2013 .. yeah next week.

We have been trying to deal with the bullshit bureaucratic monster called the USA with no luck, they want us to pay a $70 fine and all sorts of crap.

My question is, are all the countries in South America tied to the USA digitally so will the know if we don't have rego.

We had to get a registration power of attorney page notarized in Chachapoyas which we did but now they won't accept it.

So we now have a beautiful piece of paper signed and notarized with the US system written on it ... and a nice stamp etc .... one is thinking if it was signed ...bla bla bla.

So my burning question is will any off South American guy know if we don't have the real mcoy ... i.e. just win it from here to NZ
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  #2  
Old 23 Dec 2013
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Not sure I understand what you're asking. For registration purposes "the bullshit bureaucratic monster called the USA" is utterly irrelevant. What state? Almost any state which allowed you to legally register in the first place has some provision for legally renewing by mail. So what's your problem?

FWIW, no South American country is going to have the means to easily check the validity of your registration. However, they can read an expiration date as easily as you can. And as discussed to the point of absurdity on many other threads, photocopies with shopped-in dates usually pass muster…until they don't.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark
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  #3  
Old 24 Dec 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post
Not sure I understand what you're asking. For registration purposes "the bullshit bureaucratic monster called the USA" is utterly irrelevant. What state? Almost any state which allowed you to legally register in the first place has some provision for legally renewing by mail. So what's your problem?
AZ is the state ..."the bullshit bureaucratic monster called the USA" can't believe I was that polite ...must be Christmas, I am going soft.

Just wonna pay them money to "legally" continue our rego, because my friend in AZ went to do it for us they said we needed a Power Of Attorney assigned to him, we duly did this then they refused that and have locked our registration down and nothing can be done online or in person ...WTF you're kidding we only wonna pay some ****ing money!!!!

Hope the explains "t b b m c t USA"

Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post
FWIW, no South American country is going to have the means to easily check the validity of your registration. However, they can read an expiration date as easily as you can. And as discussed to the point of absurdity on many other threads, photocopies with shopped-in dates usually pass muster…until they don't.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark
Ok, think we are gonna use our notarized paperwork and fudge the dates on our other papers, forced to do it illegally after trying our hardest to do it legally ... the system ... WOH HOH go USA.

Thanks for your help Mark, rant over, rum on ... Merry Christmas mate
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  #4  
Old 24 Dec 2013
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You might as well get your rants right. That's the state of Arizona. The USA government has nothing to do with it. Not the same by any stretch. For example, the two are always suing each other. On the other hand, no need for you to learn the difference if you're content to be railing at the wrong entity.

Best bet would have been to have him submit the form by mail. I did that for years on my Arizona registration when I'd long since moved elsewhere. It's easy…unless you've attracted attention and/or peeved someone, as you apparently have now done.

Good luck with your documentation. Sometimes cutting a few corners is the only practical alternative. Fortunately, most Latin American officials understand that perfectly.

Bottoms up!

Mark
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  #5  
Old 24 Dec 2013
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us rego in South America

Hello Two Moto Kiwis,

it is difficult to understand your post, and your problem.

Quote:
FWIW, no South American country is going to have the means to easily check the validity of your registration.
Mark is right about this, as he is most of the time here on the forum. I would even say, no country outside where you registered your bike has the means to check the validity of your rego.

You are in Peru, relax, this is just a date on a paper. I even took a black marker to erase dates on papers, not only once.

I also understand that you are complaining about the US rego system, because this does not give you the way to do things the legal/correct way. Anyway, the US has become a Third World Country in many ways, not only in the bureaucratic system. Mark, if you want to argue about this, pls send me a pm.

You are traveling the world, learn about it as you go along ... not everything is like you have been told in school.

Saludos de Samaipata Bolivia
mika
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  #6  
Old 24 Dec 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post
It's easy…unless you've attracted attention and/or peeved someone, as you apparently have now done.



Mark
We did what they asked us to do then that was it so yeah not sure how we managed to upset them.

Mika has it right, USA for banking (noting Well Fugwitzs) and AZ now for rego is seriously backward for simple transactions that can't be done on behalf of some to GIVE them money.
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  #7  
Old 25 Dec 2013
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I'm not sure I quite understand the problem. Let me see if I can paraphrase.

One of your bikes is registered in the state of Arizona and the registration expires on December 31. When your friend in Arizona went to reregister the bike, he was told that he couldn't do it without power of attorney from you. So you did that from your current location, but they wouldn't accept the document back in Arizona.

Is that about it? What's the $70 for? Is that in addition to the annual registration fee?

I'm not at all familiar with Arizona, but it seems like you should be able to find someone to talk to who can help you. Some states do registration by county (like the state where I live) and others do it by the whole state. If Arizona is of the latter (and I seem to think it is), it might be possible to simply go to a different motor vehicle office, preferably in a small town. They tend to be a little more helpful there, and not so bogged down with so much work.

I'd say it's worth going into another motor vehicle office (or two). For many years I had my vehicle registered in one state and I resided in another. Nobody ever said anything about it, until one police officer ticketed me for having an invalid address on my registration. Perhaps your Arizona contact just happened to be talking to the one jerk in the office who wants to make things difficult. Find someone helpful who will understand the situation.

On the other hand, nobody in any other country is going to bother to do any sort of check to make sure your registration is current other than maybe look at the date on your document.

Jamie
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  #8  
Old 25 Dec 2013
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I'm thinking that whoever tried to register the bike on the Arizona end blew it so badly that the state flagged the bike in their (statewide) computers. It's now flagged as stolen or counterfeit or who-knows-what? I don't know what they did wrong, but they did a thorough job of it.
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  #9  
Old 25 Dec 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post
I'm thinking that whoever tried to register the bike on the Arizona end blew it so badly that the state flagged the bike in their (statewide) computers. It's now flagged as stolen or counterfeit or who-knows-what? I don't know what they did wrong, but they did a thorough job of it.
You thought wrong wrong Mark, it was done at their request exactly as they requested and they now they don't like our Notarized official document THEY sent so Fnck them.

Our friend who did exactly what they asked and he is no dummy, the stupid fncking system and the wankers they employ are the problem, no wonder they are in the shit.

Sorry for the rant but we have done everything correct, not once have we had an issue ANYWHERE through Central America or South America just fncking USA ... AZ, call it what you want.

They lose.
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Last edited by Two Moto Kiwis; 25 Dec 2013 at 06:03. Reason: fnck cos they other don't work
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  #10  
Old 25 Dec 2013
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I'll leave it after this post. Andi, there was no need to ask anyone what to do. There was no need to show up. There was no need to interact with anyone--over the phone, in person, by post or email, or in any other form. There was no need for a notary. Once your guy got to the point where someone was "requesting" a notarized whatever, your registration was dead in the water. He should never have gotten to that point.

I can see an exception only if the local address you used is in one of the areas where emissions testing is required. I don't know how that works.

Standard caveat: if I'm wrong, it sure won't be the first time.

Sorry about your headaches and fully sympathetic with your rage, widely shared, at DMV functionaries wherever they're found (usually under rocks, lurking beneath bridges, or under raincoats in the back rows of cheap movie theaters).
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  #11  
Old 25 Dec 2013
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Arizona Registration Conflict

Hi guys, will try to help. But need some info. Who is "Mayas" ?

1. In Arizona - it is the "tag" on the license plate that "expires"
and a new registration is issued with the issuance of
a small valid "tag" that you stick in the corner of the license plate.

Assuming the motorcycle has an Arizona license plate - there should
be a small "tag" in one corner. I need to know the date on that "tag", or if , indeed there is such a tag -
If it is obvious that the tag is expired you might want to pull it off.

2. Arizona insurance is needed if the motorcycle is used on the highways
and byways of Arizona, or a "waiver" may be requested if the motor
cycle is in "storage" and not being ridden in Arizona.

Have you Arizona motorcycle liability insurance? Or, have you a "waiver" signed by the legal owner that the motorcycle is not being used in Arizona? Careful - the Arizona registration may be cancelled if the DOT
Department of Transportation believes the motorcycle is permanently out of the State and thereby should be registered in another State, or if your Arizona insurance expires... You might do well to just list the motorcycle as being "stored" and not ridden in Arizona. You will ride it at your own peril in South America, just ride safe.

Any South American insurance states (in small print) that only legally owned and registered vehicles/motorcycles are actually covered by insurance and although the owner bought an insurance policy, the insurance company, not the police will do a title/registration check. A simple phone call to DOT Arizona or Arizona Highway patrol is all that is needed. I have never heard of local police checking on the registration of foreign tourist owned , foreign titled/ registered motorcycles beyond looking at whatever docs you provide.

But in the event of an accident - the insurance company will do whatever they can to avoid paying damages and bailing you out of jail.

As Mark correctly pointed out - each State of the United States has it's own Department of Transportation complete with their own rules and regulations regarding license plates, registrations and the rules and regulations regarding titles. This independence within a country is not easily grasped by foreigners who are used to national vehicle registration rules and regulations.

3. You have a power of attorney - signed in Peru? Did you send an apostille? What the notary really does is validate it is you who is signing the power of attorney - I assume the power of attorney form that you used was provided by the DOT Arizona ?

Perhaps an apostille was needed along with the power of Attorney Do you also have an apostille? Who notarized the power of attorney? A Peruvian notary , someone at your Embassy? If it was done by an attorney, it is quite possible the State of Arizona will require an apostille - validating the attorney and/or validating the notary. Did arizona DOT understand the power of attorney was coming from a foreign country?

I say "perhaps an apostille was needed" - because I had a run around with the State of Arizona when I tried to have a power of attorney recognized that was notarized in Argentina. They wanted an "apostille" Argentina stating that the notary - was real????

My way around was to go to a notary at the U S Embassy Buenos Aires... the notary validated my signature on the power of attorney, and no apostille was needed by the State of Arizona

Fill me in - and I will offer any helpful suggestions I can.

Happy Holidays where are you now?

xfiltrate
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  #12  
Old 27 Dec 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Z View Post
I'm not sure I quite understand the problem. Let me see if I can paraphrase.

One of your bikes is registered in the state of Arizona and the registration expires on December 31. When your friend in Arizona went to reregister the bike, he was told that he couldn't do it without power of attorney from you. So you did that from your current location, but they wouldn't accept the document back in Arizona.

Is that about it? What's the $70 for? Is that in addition to the annual registration fee?

Jamie
Yes that hits it directly on the head other than we only have one bike.
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  #13  
Old 27 Dec 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post

I can see an exception only if the local address you used is in one of the areas where emissions testing is required. I don't know how that works.

Standard caveat: if I'm wrong, it sure won't be the first time.
Ok, that is where the shit started because of emissions, we were told to de-insure the bike for being ridden out of state or US or both only .i.e AZ I can't remember.

Then they wanted these rest of it, will explain below.

The rests of it was done to the letter as requested by them.
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  #14  
Old 27 Dec 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfiltrate View Post
Hi guys, will try to help. But need some info. Who is "Mayas" ?

1. In Arizona - it is the "tag" on the license plate that "expires"
and a new registration is issued with the issuance of
a small valid "tag" that you stick in the corner of the license plate.

Assuming the motorcycle has an Arizona license plate - there should
be a small "tag" in one corner. I need to know the date on that "tag", or if , indeed there is such a tag -
If it is obvious that the tag is expired you might want to pull it off.

2. Arizona insurance is needed if the motorcycle is used on the highways
and byways of Arizona, or a "waiver" may be requested if the motor
cycle is in "storage" and not being ridden in Arizona.

Have you Arizona motorcycle liability insurance? Or, have you a "waiver" signed by the legal owner that the motorcycle is not being used in Arizona? Careful - the Arizona registration may be cancelled if the DOT
Department of Transportation believes the motorcycle is permanently out of the State and thereby should be registered in another State, or if your Arizona insurance expires... You might do well to just list the motorcycle as being "stored" and not ridden in Arizona. You will ride it at your own peril in South America, just ride safe.

Any South American insurance states (in small print) that only legally owned and registered vehicles/motorcycles are actually covered by insurance and although the owner bought an insurance policy, the insurance company, not the police will do a title/registration check. A simple phone call to DOT Arizona or Arizona Highway patrol is all that is needed. I have never heard of local police checking on the registration of foreign tourist owned , foreign titled/ registered motorcycles beyond looking at whatever docs you provide.

But in the event of an accident - the insurance company will do whatever they can to avoid paying damages and bailing you out of jail.

As Mark correctly pointed out - each State of the United States has it's own Department of Transportation complete with their own rules and regulations regarding license plates, registrations and the rules and regulations regarding titles. This independence within a country is not easily grasped by foreigners who are used to national vehicle registration rules and regulations.

3. You have a power of attorney - signed in Peru? Did you send an apostille? What the notary really does is validate it is you who is signing the power of attorney - I assume the power of attorney form that you used was provided by the DOT Arizona ?

Perhaps an apostle was needed along with the power of Attorney Do you also have an apostille? Who notarized the power of attorney? A Peruvian notary , someone at your Embassy? If it was done by an attorney, it is quite possible the State of Arizona will require an apostille - validating the attorney and/or validating the notary. Did arizona DOT understand the power of attorney was coming from a foreign country?

I say "perhaps an apostille was needed" - because I had a run around with the State of Arizona when I tried to have a power of attorney recognized that was notarized in Argentina. They wanted an "apostille" Argentina stating that the notary - was real????

My way around was to go to a notary at the U S Embassy Buenos Aires... the notary validated my signature on the power of attorney, and no apostille was needed by the State of Arizona

Fill me in - and I will offer any helpful suggestions I can.

Happy Holidays where are you now?

xfiltrate
Heya xfiltrate

Thanks for your time, will explain the steps as it happened.

Firstly, Maya is our 2007 KTM950 Super Enduro R, we only have the one bike.

1, Yes the little tag was on the right hand side and displayed Dec 13, although valid for a few more days we have wiped it off.

2, The ADOT people told us to de-insure the bike from AZ so as we don't have to go through emissions being we are out of country (They know we are not is AZ at this point).

The bike is in my name, I own it outright and have the original certificate of title fully in my name with me which we use at borders.

We tried to re-register the bike online (normal) but need the emissions test, they said because we are out of state then de-insure the bike meaning we don't need emissions.

We did this.

Then our friend in Phoenix (RTW seasoned traveller and street wise) went to pay and get our registration sticker for 2 years.

They then required a notarized doc, so they sent an official ADOT Power Of Attorney PDF form which we duly filled out with VIN numbers, passport numbers and EVERYTHING, took it to a Notaria and had it notorized, stamped, sealed, licked bla bla bla ...i.e. all correct.

They are aware that we are in Peru there is no misunderstanding, that is the reason we had to do the notarzing at their request.

They then say no and lock down our registration so we cannot register the bike, they then say I have to pay a $70 USD fine for de-insuring, then we have to reinsure for AZ, then register our bike.

This can only be be done if we pay the $70 fine for the de-insuring which they told us to do ... this slices me to the bone, then we have to pay insurance for somewhere we aren't, on top of the we paid for our notarized docs etc so now I am not seeing the funny side anymore for just trying to do it right.

They have never even mentioned an apostille, I then wonder if we have to get the apostille notarized as genuine??? one wonders how far you have to go to pay for registration.

So that is it thus far, I am pretty anal about paperwork thus we have not had one single issue anywhere yet in 20 months on the road even through border heavy CA, I would prefer to have the registration so when we get pulled up there is one less chance for them to bribe/fine us so yes any help would be welcomed.

Many thanks Andi
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  #15  
Old 27 Dec 2013
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Arizona registration head bangers

Andi, I have in front of me a copy of my latest Arizona Vehicle Registration Notice - We own two SUVs registered in Flagstaff, Arizona. We "de-insured" one and have put the other "on vacation" paying AllState Insurance company the bare minimum to keep our older SUV insured. This"vacation" insurance is very cheap and keeps the policy in force while the SUV is parked/not driven on the street.... at our ranch.

And, there is a box that states "No Emissions Test Required" on the Vehicle Registration Renewal Notice, and I simply renew on line. No emissions are required, but I do understand some cities do require emission tests - but I am not sure if emission tests are mandatory for motorcycles?

We do not receive renewal notices for the SUV that we de-insured. Perhaps, because registrations are not renewed on de-insured vehicles until prof of insurance is once again provided.

First: I have tried to determine, by searching the ADOT website (Motor Vehicle Division) if - perhaps - motorcycles might not require emissions tests and the Motor Vehicle Division person does not know this and mistakenly believes your motorcycle is a car. Some cities/counties in Arizona require emission tests and others don't.

Go here to find out if your motorcycle needs to have an emission test..

Emissions

Here is the problem as I see it, this is my best guess. Once you have de-insured, your vehicle registration might not be renewed until you provide prof of insurance.

Perhaps your mate in Arizona can assist you purchasing the minimum Arizona insurance - for your motorcycle - take the prof of insurance with the "power of attorney" to the Motor Vehicle Division and pay whatever registration fee required.

I am not certain about Arizona not renewing registrations without prof of Arizona insurance. Some independent research regarding the emission test issue and whether or not Arizona will renew registrations for de-insured vehicles is at least a start. You need to act fast.

One final note. Go to: ServiceArizona - Arizona Department of Transportation & MVD Services

and using the information you have on your Arizona title and your plate #,
try to renew your registration . You will need an Arizona address so that your new "tag" and registration can be mailed to you. and you will have to pay registration fee by credit card. It might just work.

You don't have much time until the 31st so try this asap.

This may not work - due to the lack of prof of Arizona insurance, but it is certainly worth a try and you should do it before the 31st when your current registration runs out.

Keep me posted. I will make a few discreet phone calls today to a contact I have in Arizona who may be able to help.

We are on the road soon.... let's stay in touch, we will be riding through Peru.

xfiltrate
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