Ripper off by Around the Block Moto ADventures

[exponent]

My advice to anyone renting a motorcycle in Peru is to steer clear of Around the Block Moto Adventures owned by Mr. Shannon. He ripped me off for 2800 USD. I laid down 5000 USD on a rental/buyback agreement whereby at the end of my rental period I would be returned the 5000 less a per diem of 28 USD. The bike suffered many failures – 7 in total over a 14 day period. These were hard mechanical issue that involved a repair. In addition the bike stranded me and refused to start on many occasions. This was related to the bike being old and what the final failure was. When I arrived to pick up the bike Mr. Shannon said that they were not happy with the oil flow and were trying to tighten things down. 15 days later the bike failed and the root cause was a failed oil pump. This is exactly what the mechanic in Chile said and what I also saw with my own eyes. There was almost no oil coming to the head end. Mr. Shannon agreed to refund all of mty 5000 plus the mechanics fees. The amail is below:

****************************Start email************************************
-------- Original message --------
From: Toby Shannon <aroundtheblock07@gmail.com>
Date: 3/11/2016 10:07 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: YYYYYYYYYYYY <XXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Clarification.


OK.* I understand your points.* It was my true belief and intention that I sold you a motorcycle that would easily do the trip.* It has not been that motorcycle...
You want to continue with your trip as soon as possible and be free of the motorcycle.* To coordinate this I have a few questions:
1) Are you coming back to Peru to fly out of Lima?* I ask this to try to coordinate the sale back into my name.* If not, I will try to work something out that does not put you out. or require you to travel.
2) Have you already ordered/paid for the parts?* I ask this to speed things up if you have not.* Perhaps the mechanic has pickup and you could return it that way to Tacna WITHOUT fixing it.

I believe I have found a secure shipper just over the border in Tacna, Peru (the moto CAN'T be shipped over the Peru/Chile border, but must be taken over some way).* The shipper will completely prep the bike (all you would have to do it take the mirrors off and tape them to the seat) who will freight it to Lima (maybe even COD), so that is all the further you would have to take it.* With this freight company it would be safe at their depository in Lima until I arrive in 12 days.* As long as you sent it to my name and scan me a copy of the paperwork the shipper makes out, I could pick it up there in Lima and get it to Huanuco on a freight truck.* I can make the phone calls and clear everything up so that they will be expecting you and know what to do.* Then you can be free to continue your travels in the way you wish..
I will cover ALL COSTS to do this.* Even kick back and have a on me guy.!* So sorry you have had to go thru this.
Let me know what your timetable is.
Cheers!
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 5:26 PM, YYYYYYYYYYYY <XXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks but no thanks on the tornado. I had no intention of being back where I started after 4 weeks.* I have a friend in paraguay that is ill and this is my last chance to see him. I also want to see rio and parts of brazil. Time now dictates how I travel and motorcycle can't do it. I would in essence have to travel the same highway seeing the same sights for the third time.* Ecuador and Columbia were not in the plans nor can they be due to time. This has been one of the worst experiences of my life when I should be enjoying myself. All of it due to a poorly maintained motorcycle. It doesn't matter that it started in your shop or that you drove it with no problems. That is past history and was your experience, *not mine which was exactly the opposite. Obviously the previous owner was a hack. I find it really painful to have you minimize what has happened. I, wish you could have been along to see for yourself. Maybe then you would understand. I have contributed zero to the failures, there was nothing I did that caused them. I did lubes, oil changes, filter cleaning - everything that was required. I am stuck til Monday because of waiting on the part which I should get tomorrow but then I have to wait till Monday for the office. One whole week and zero miles.* My holiday will be half over soon and to be at starting point is screwed up. I want to drive this bike as little as possible. I want something more workable than just try. What happens on next breakdown
****************************End email********************************

I did everything requested and had to even fly to Lima to get paparwork done but this was to help return the bike as agreed and to get my deposit back. Quite some time (a month) elapsed and I had received nothing so I inquired. The email is below.


*******************************START EMAIL*********************************
On 16-04-05 03:42 PM, Toby Shannon wrote:
Jon, right now I only have $1,400 in the Paypal account and am waiting for some payments to have the total to send you.* I spent alot of what you paid in getting the 600R ready, then counted on you being out for 3 months and moved some finances around.* Now I need it back in the Paypal account to refund you.* I should have it by the end of the week.* I can forward the $670.00 separately if you wish.
Toby

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 3:52 PM, YYYYYYYYYYYY <XXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com> wrote:
Where are we at? I have not heard anything from PayPal
*****************************END EMAIL*********************************

He then returned 2500 and we were back into waiting mode until he came forward weeks after the incident and claimed that I had over heated the bike and that it was all my fault and that I would only be receiving $401.80 of the 3,170 USD owing.

At no time did I ever overheat that bike and the mechanic in Chile found that not only had the pump failed but someone had attempted to seal it with silicon. The initial problem that Mr. Shannon was working on when I arrived was the exact same issue that caused the mototrcycle to fail. I had no idea that the little oil flow issue would end up costing me about 2800 USD for a 14 day ride. I was ripped off because Mr. Shannon had financial issues As far as I know he never contacted the mechanic in Chile despite my repeated requests to do so. Of course there is lots more detail. For those that want to read more I put dates, emails, contacts etc. in the document attached to this post. Lots of the email is pretty revealing. One more thing, after the oil pump was repaired I did not drive the motorocycle at all. It was trucked and shipped from Arica Chile to Tacna, Peru and then to Lima,Peru where is was received on Mar 18. That was the return date.

[chris]

Having read some of the OP's contributions here on the HUBB, I have drawn my own conclusions of his knowledge and wherewithal of what it takes to ride in South America.

Fwiw, the OP was seemingly originally looking for a KLR. And ended up with a XR6! 2 completely different beasts.

An aside: How can anyone think it's a good idea to buy a right side kick start only bike if they have an injured right leg! !

I visited Toby in Huanuco a few days ago and found him to be incredibly helpful, knowledge and professional. His excellent route suggestions and shared local knowledge were given freely, as was his time helping me to check wheel, swing arm and head bearings that isn't so easy to do on your own when my KLR only has a side stand.

[mollydog]

This post caught my eye as well. I've never met Toby but have followed him and exchanged messages here on HUBB and ADV Rider for 10 years. More recently he got into the buy/sell/rent business and the few reports I've seen have been good.

Toby is always reaching out to travelers offering his services from bikes to guiding. He is a Peru' expert, been there many years, done lots of exploring.

IMO, Toby has always come across as a 100% stand up guy. (No way is this guy a scammer) I'm guessing the problem here is a series of miscommunications, some bad luck and possibly a not so great bike or an abused bike.

If me, I'd never ever buy or rent a bike long distance, sight unseen ... only in person and only after a LONG test ride and detailed interview with the seller. Who sends cash ahead, sight unseen? Just not good business practice, IMO.

Toby seems to me like a "full disclosure" type of guy and I'm thinking that if he knew the bike had problems before hand he would have mentioned it. But I wasn't there ...

IMHO, (having owned 5 XR's over the last 20 years) they are not they most reliable bikes in the barn and DO run hot. They require careful servicing and a conscientious owner to go the distance. But Toby is an XR fan and has owned them for ages.

Until we hear from Toby, I'm thinking we've only really heard one side of the story. Parsed and edited emails are not always a fair way to present an argument, unless it's one sided.

Sorry all this has happened. Hope an amicable solution can be worked out that's fair to both.

[charapashanperu]

I will try to keep this short, with no slander or un-truths, and not naming the customer. First let me say that I am a Mechanical Engineer and moto mechanics teacher of 23 years. We run ALL Honda XRs and anyone who has rented or purchased bikes from our fleet will attest to their condition, older or not.

The PURCHASE & BUY BACK agreement is found online in much detail: adventure motorcycle tours in Peru and all South America - Moto Purchase & Buy Back

I realize that exponent feels he was improperly treated. I bought this 1996 one owner bike months previous to this sale and personally rode it 2,000 km with no issues before rebuilding the frame, new drive and putting on new plastic. The engine tested strong. There was no engine rebuild and it was never advertised as such. The bike ran great and I started it first kick every time in front of client. Client was encouraged to hard test the bike for a few days in the area, before completing the PURCHASE. The ignition failure mentioned during the one short test was an inexpensive key ignition switch I had just installed (the XR600R does not come with one) for the customers added safety against theft. Upon failure (there was also an unmentioned fall involved) I installed a new one at no charge with which there was no longer a problem.

I was greatly concerned for the success of the customers trip as: (1) This kick start model is a bear to crank! You must have experience, a strong kick and follow through. Perhaps the customer had not researched the model he was buying considering the fact that prior to this trip he had had major surgery on his right knee and was forced to attempt to crank with his left leg. (2) He carried with him no tools, no spares, no GPS, no real riding gear except a helmet, and limited Spanish or moto mechanical knowledge.

Yes, the clutch cable broke on his first day out, but would be easily fixed locally with some Spanish knowledge.

Due to a perceived no start one morning the customer allowed a rural mechanic to change the Honda CDI out with a Chinese one. This could possibly cause all kinds of problems to engine condition.

2,000 km of hard riding later the master link comes off the previously new chain and the customer feels the seller is to blame.

Bike finally fails 3,000 km later down on the desert coast with a high altitude jet still in the carburator. The condition (I'm told) is the head is burnt up due to an oil pump failure. Taking the customer at his word, I offer to cover the repairs so that he may continue his tour successfully, yet I find out later that ONLY the exhaust rockers failed. Customer installs a new oil pump (at 220% of MSRP) and 2 WELDED UP exhaust rocker arms from some donor bike. He allows himself to be charged 16 times the going labor rate (I guess that is because I offered to pay). After this expensive repair, the customer decides NOT to continue and I offer to BUY BACK the motorcycle as per the agreement stated on the website (less the minimum 30 days per Diem, less damages) The PURCHASE & BUY BACK agreement also sates the the customer must bring the bike back to me.

I made arrangements for the shipping back from the Peru/Chile border (over 1,600 km away via Lima and back to our Andes location) get the bike back to our shop and disassembled (after much personal time dedicated at no-cost to the customer) and find that there has been no oil pump catastrophic failure (no lack of lubrication to the cylinder or intake rockers), that welded up used exhaust rocker arms were installed, and other damage done internally to the engine during the faulty overcharged repair done in Chile. I found all of the engine oil was put in the sump and NONE in the frame from which the the oil pump has its intake. This COULD happen from the bike being laid over for a long time, which MIGHT have happened in transport, but I am inclined to believe it was the Chilean mechanics (at a Chinese moto dealership) lack of knowledge of this model. No failed parts were returned to me

I calculated the damage at my USA discount parts cost (even though I operate in Peru where parts costs are greater) and my shops professional labor rate (in Peru) at $4.50/hr to fix. I discounted the 30 days minimum Per Diem (as per contract), and the shipping. I refused to pay the exorbitant and badly done repair bill from Chile (I was only given a scanned penciled quote, NOT a formal bill or proof of parts costs) and returned to the customer the difference of his PURCHASE PRICE even though I was left with a paperwork nightmare to get it back in my name as the customer was in too much of a hurry to leave Peru to do this properly, blaming the language problem and Peru's system.

The customer has received back almost 60% of his PURCHASE COST after 3,000 kms of use (in the jungle, the Andes and the deserts of Peru) and considering the damage to the bike. I believe this to be more than fair and that it is slanderous that the customer would resort to bashing me and my small business in Peru here on the HUBB, on ADV RIDER and Thumper Talk in order to hurt me for his perceived unfair loss. I'm surprised the moderators here on the HUBB have not stepped in as they have done on ADV.

My testimony of serving hundreds of HUBB folks and ADV inmates with their bike needs and route guidance in Peru (online and in person), lodging dozens in my home in Peru, repairing their bikes professionally at our $4.50 labor rate, all stands me in good stead against this rant.

Aside from this original settlement I offered to additionally refund him 150% of the MSRP of the new oil pump plus labor of the pump replaced in Chile (needlessly I believe, there being no other sign of lack of lubrication at the piston or on the intake side of the upper head) if it proves to be good still after being run dry in testing. Also, when I have all the engine damage repaired and the bike up and running I will strobe the spark timing to see if the installed Chinese CDI played into the eventual failure and share this information truthfully (via video) with the customer and any others interested (along with all the other damage photos and specifications already shared with the customer if any so desire).

[charapashanperu]

It is interesting that 'exponent' keeps using the term 'Rental/Buy Back' when the website contract has it as PURCHASE & BUY BACK so as to put the onus on the OP.

Looking at his earlier posts he is even looking at selling the bike once he gets to Brazil... http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...new-bike-82948 which is totally his option as he BOUGHT the bike!

He originally wanted a simple answer to his 'Buying a bike in SA', but thot it crazy to have to personally do the required research: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-america-83049

Then as part of his argument is the loss of so many days on his ride due to 'bike failure' when part of that time he spent 2-3 days backtracking to the Bolivian border from Arequipa only to lose an additional 4 days trying to do a Peru/Bolivian border crossing with a Peruvian registered motorcycle that I told him in the beginning would be impossible: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ivia-can-86337

[Arma]

Originally Posted by charapashanperu

It is interesting that 'exponent' keeps using the term 'Rental/Buy Back' when the website contract has it as PURCHASE & BUY BACK so as to put the onus on the OP.

Looking at his earlier posts he is even looking at selling the bike once he gets to Brazil... http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...new-bike-82948 which is totally his option as he BOUGHT the bike!

He originally wanted a simple answer to his 'Buying a bike in SA', but thot it crazy to have to personally do the required research: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-america-83049

Then as part of his argument is the loss of so many days on his ride due to 'bike failure' when part of that time he spent 2-3 days backtracking to the Bolivian border from Arequipa only to lose an additional 4 days trying to do a Peru/Bolivian border crossing with a Peruvian registered motorcycle that I told him in the beginning would be impossible: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ivia-can-86337

I shouldn't worry too much, it's clear even from the email that the OP posted that he's being distinctly unreasonable and that you've gone above and beyond in dealing with him. I'd say that, if anything, you should consider this thread as free advertising. I'd certainly come your way if I was considering doing similar.

[exponent]

This business about being charged 160 the going rate etc is all crap and anyways it is all a smokescreen from what really happened. This bike was not driven one foot after the oil pump failure. By the way I guess toby feels the way to handle things is to have me banned like he did on adviser we hen all I did is post the truth. I notice née now claims that I further damaged the bike when I never even drove it plus he has still not talked to the mechanic in Chile and yes Chileans make much more than peruvians. As for the parts I personally paid Honda and the other party for the parts so there was no dealer markup. And again this is all post failure and just distracts from the oil pump failure which was starting to fail right in Toby's shop. He may be a helpful guy but he shafted me.

[LD Hack]

Originally Posted by exponent

My advice to anyone renting a motorcycle in Peru....

First off, you purchased a moto from Toby, you didn't rent. When you own the moto, it's yours to take care of. I respect your opinion Exponent, but I am taking exception.

I have no involvement with Toby, other than being a customer. My experience purchasing a Honda Tornado from Toby in Peru was exactly the opposite to that of Exponent.

I own a small business myself for 35 years, and I understand what it takes to be successful - so my evaluation comes from understanding how a successful small business works.

My experience is that Toby is exceptional in the way he treats his customers and addresses problems. Anyone who is considering renting or purchasing a moto through Around the Block, do not hesitate for one second - if you have ANY hesitancy, please contact me by pm or email. I have a ride report on AdvRider, and in my report I mention both my experience with Toby and with the Honda I purchased from him.
Leaving the Arrowhead country to ride Peru and north | Adventure Rider

Toby is the guy to go to if you want to deal with an honest businessman and want an affordable way to travel in SA. I did my research through HU and AdvRider, and all cases, except this posting, Toby was complimented. I maintain my high opinion of Toby.

[xfiltrate]

Unexpected and inexplicable change in a situation or in someone's behavior are constants among those of us creating and running a motorcycle related business in South America.

Our motorcyle related business is ongoing ten years later and we look forward to many more successful years, but, doing business in South America is very challenging. First, there are the governmental regulations, taxes, insurances and personel issues that are must be handled before providing a service or a sale. Perhaps the clients are unaware of the tremendous effort required to create a business in South America.

Charapashanperu has published his "purchase and buy back agreement". Written agreements are the masts that keep sails full and keep a business on course.
Although, a rental charge is mentioned, this is contingent upon conditions determined prior to the "buy back," and explained clearly as "minus any damage of course!" with an implied refusal to "buy back."

The market for motorcycles legally purchased and able to cross South American borders and be available for riding - soon after the foreign tourist arrives in country is very great, and Charapashanperu is trying to meet this market need.
I appluad his efforts.

What I don't understand is a client with $5,000.00 available purchasing a used motorcyle instead of, albeit a slightly less horsepower new motorcyle. All new motorcyles offer warranties that will protect the buyer from the liability of mechanical "damage" and when in tandum with a good comprehensive insurace policy reduces practically all liability.

I note that charapashanperu offers new motorcyles at very resonalble prices on his web site. I would like to hear the details of the warranties that accompany these new motorcycles. I am sure exponent would have done better to buy new.

xfiltrate

[BruceP]

Originally Posted by mollydog

Who sends cash ahead, sight unseen? Just not good business practice, IMO.

Err, me ?

Ok, so I knew the guy I was buying off having met him previously. :-)

[BruceP]

Originally Posted by exponent

This business about being charged 160 the going rate etc is all crap and anyways it is all a smokescreen from what really happened. This bike was not driven one foot after the oil pump failure. By the way I guess toby feels the way to handle things is to have me banned like he did on adviser we hen all I did is post the truth. I notice née now claims that I further damaged the bike when I never even drove it plus he has still not talked to the mechanic in Chile and yes Chileans make much more than peruvians. As for the parts I personally paid Honda and the other party for the parts so there was no dealer markup. And again this is all post failure and just distracts from the oil pump failure which was starting to fail right in Toby's shop. He may be a helpful guy but he shafted me.

All you are doing is defamation and libel. That is why the other forums have stepped in. Don't be too surprised if it happens here as well.

You should restrict your discussions and arguments with the other party, or lawyers if you believe strongly how right you are.

[Peter Bodtke]

I know Toby and have only good things to say about him and Around the Block Moto Adventures. In the fall of 2014 several friends joined a tour in progress and rode from the beach to the Andes, an epic trip. Our bikes were well set-up and inspected at the end of each day by Toby and his ace mechanic. If anything was out of order, it got fixed a.s.a.p.

Last summer I recommend Toby in a post exponent made seeking advice. I still recommend Toby, as I know how much he cares about keeping his fleet in top shape. Any bike that rolls out his door will get the same attention. November 2016 (yes, I am putting a date down!) I will BUY a NEW bike from Toby and tear around the Andes for about a week with my amigos once again. There is no doubt in my mind that Toby will meet or exceed my needs.

A used bike may have hidden problems that any mechanic can't fix until it fails. Even a new bike may have hidden problems. When you are thousands of miles away, what do you expect from the guy who sold it to you?

Adventure starts when the trip goes off script. Travelers spin riveting stories of overcoming adversity. Tourists whine and complain without end. Did I make a fuss paying dealer prices when getting quality work in Brazil? No. The price of adventure is always worth whatever you pay. Some people are really better suited for staying home.

[Erik_G]

Thanks for the warning. I was close to falling into this trap.

"The new law (June 2017) says that a "resident" (or "resident" with a poder) must exit the moto from Peru."

=> I as a non resident can't legally exit Peru on my own bike.
Same as from Chile and Argentina
So why should I buy a bike in Peru ??
Only if I want to stay in Peru
=
This regulation is created to avoid people buying a bike in a neighbor country, that has lower prices. It is an export regulation. It is exiting that is not legal.
It has nothing to do with entering other countries.

You can't talk about border crossing as one item.
There is one exit part. That the country you are leaving regulates. (This is of course independent of what country you plan to enter)
And one exit procedure that is controlled by the country that you enter.

[tohellnback]

Sounds like a moto bought south of the equator is out of the question unless you have citizen card . I dont know the rules in Colombia about buying and traveling to another country I suppose citizenship card is required all so.
I never gave it any thought because I am a foreigner with Colombian ID and it comes with yearly taxes on the value of your moto My F700 is is 150 dollars US a year
But I do know that a Colombian bought and registered moto cannot be sold and re plated to another country TAXES are the rule that over rules Where ever you buy you sell in the same country only, I think the rule is continent wide
I can't imagine how toby operates

[Erik_G]

This post has been moved to a new thread

/Erik