Hi Simon:

I agree with you, if someone is willing to take the time to plan a route that avoids roadways with a speed limit greater than (for example) 80 km/h or 50 MPH, then sure, a long distance ride could be done safely, enjoyably, and comfortably on a bike with a small engine (<500 cc).

My concern, which I expressed in my first reply to this discussion, is this: The people who are most likely to be influenced by discussions such as this are not folks who have years and years of experience touring cross-country on motorcycles... they are most likely young ones or newbies who have no prior experience with long distance motorcycle touring. A perfect example of this is the question posted by forum member 'NWY' in this discussion: Travelling EU on Moped.

Folks such as NWY want to enjoy long distance touring, but might not have the financial resources needed to make an elective decision about whether to use a small, low-powered moto or a larger bike that is suitable for long distance highway use. I'm worried that we - the more experienced riders - might unintentionally be encouraging them to do something that is not entirely prudent by saying "Sure, you can have a great cross-country trip on a 50 cc, 150 cc, or 250 cc bike".

By way of analogy: Before I retired, my job was to make intercontinental deliveries of new aircraft, from the factory to the airline that purchased the aircraft. Frequently this meant ferrying the aircraft halfway around the world, in segments of 1,000 to 1,500 nautical miles per flight. The aircraft were always new (therefore generally trouble free) and were always equipped with the "latest and greatest" navigation and communication equipment. On top of that, my full time job was delivering these aircraft, hence I was used to flying halfway around the world every month... it was 'old hat'.

Once, a friend asked me to move a really small aircraft (a little 2-seater) from one side of Canada to the other. My first reaction was "Sure, shouldn't be much of a problem." After making that trip, I realized that it required a heck of a lot more of my skill and experience to move that little thing, with its limited speed, range, power, and navigational capabilities, across Canada in 300 mile legs than it did to move the newer, larger aircraft halfway around the world in 1,500 mile legs.

I got the little aircraft moved, and it was a pleasant and entertaining voyage in its own way, but I certainly don't think it was the kind of trip that a young pilot with limited long-distance experience could have undertaken. On the other hand, a young pilot with limited long distance experience could have safely and easily moved a newer, larger, more powerful aircraft with greater range and navigational capabilities over the same route.

I hope that puts my thoughts in the correct perspective.

Michael

Then none of you have read sean's blog? try a honda passport from alaska to argentina:

Honda Vs The World | Alaska to ArgentinaHonda Vs The World | Alaska to Argentina

or

Walter Muma's trip to alaska on a moped:
Moped Trip - 18660 km by moped

or this romance true life story:
THE SCOOTER DIARIES

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kicka,kicka,cough, sputter, kicka,kicka, cough, sputter, bwbwbwbwbw....she running fiine today

I admit I have not read it, although I intend to. The point of my post was linking a ride which showed several taboos and myths being debunked/dis-proved in the oft-asked Horizons questions of what bike someone 'NEEDS' in order to ride coast to coast in the US.

Personally, I am a big fan of Simon Gandolfo's threads where he rides 125cc bikes EVERYWHERE.

It all (i think) boils down to:
1) what do 'feel' comfortable with? (some are intimidated by giant, highway burners like gold wings, road kings, etc...)
2) whats your 'travel style': do you like to 'poke around' and stop at every road-side attraction (the 'world biggest ball of twine' stuff) or do you choose you destination and come hell and high water your going to reach it as quickly as possible or something in between?
3) cost (have you seen the prices of BMW, GW's and harleys lately? )
4) the challenge alone...it's different, going small...EVERYONE is doing it on big bikes these days..

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kicka,kicka,cough, sputter, kicka,kicka, cough, sputter, bwbwbwbwbw....she running fiine today

I followed Simon's ride here, met him once at a HUBB travelers meeting. Funny old guy. Haven't heard anything from him in quite a few years? I followed his S.America ride. His best response when folks asked him why an old man would do this ride?
"What should I do then? Sit home and watch TV"?
Brilliant!

There are several disadvantages to small bikes/scooters sometimes ... remember Simon's accident in Patagonia? I think he was run over by ... or run off the road by a truck trying to overtake? ... broke his leg IIRC, and he rode round with his Cane for a while.

I started on Honda 50's and a Vespa 150 around 1963. Never went round the world ... but did get around L.A.. Both did dirt bike duty!

Smallest bike I've done serious distance on is rented 125cc Honda two strokes in Thailand. Several trips there.
Great fun. I'm glad I did not have a heavier bike when ploughing through
deep mud. The 125cc was great on twisty mountain roads and fantastic in congested cities ... but a bit scary on fast Thai motorways. It topped out at 70 MPH ... and I kept it pinned there to stay out of harms way.

But crossing the USA is a different story. In some regions its just long boring
roads all day long. Even remote two lanes are boring through the plains states. Canada is even worse ... with only one real road.

For me, I need to be able to cruise comfortably at least 70 mph. A 50cc to 90cc scooter or moped would be novel for about 2 days ... after that ... I'm done with it. Superfluous in my view.

Old 350 to 650cc bikes are super cheap and plentiful in the USA ... cheapest in the world. For a novice rider, IMO, they'd be much better off with something in that range ... unless they're doing a project about scooters/mopeds for business reasons, charity or promotional reasons.

Riding a bike Cross USA is not rocket science. Anyone can (and HAVE) done it on any manner of contraption. Basic common sense and basic defensive driving skills are all you really need. The rest you'll pick up after you get out of the hospital!

Sounds like thought 1...
using what you feel comfortable with, having had experiences in different sizes, across different locations you've found what your comfortable with.

I bet you have some kick-ass stories.

BTW, I've seen 500cc cheaper than mopeds on places like craigslist!

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kicka,kicka,cough, sputter, kicka,kicka, cough, sputter, bwbwbwbwbw....she running fiine today

I do agree with you on the phenomenon a few years ago here on Horizons where it seemed people were trying to 'out-unique' each other as to the type of vehicle they could make a long trip on--people were trying to one up others and I was surprised no one tried a trip on a motorized bar stool or a large motorized cooler (and some of those have been hopped up for speed!)

However, that did not seem to be the point this father and son were trying to make. This trip seemed to be more of an against all (ok, some) odds trip, and in the meantime they proved that one does not need to have the latest BMW or even KLR to travel coast to coast in the US. I am biased here because when I was in fifth grade, in 1980, my mom used to pick me up from my school and my sisters from high school. One day, I spotted a high school girl and it was love at first site! She was sitting upon the most awesome bike I had ever seen up to that point--an authentic (it was 1980) Honda CT-70 Trailbike--sex on wheels!! From that day forward, I have always wanted one, and have resigned myself to the fact that I would settle for a replica (I am not picky) made by Skyteam in 125cc form. This man took my dream machine and proved it will go the distance!!

I am not concerned how experienced someone is or isn't, although I would not suggest such a trip to an inexperienced rider or group of riders--no matter what bike they were riding!

De Havilland? Twin Otter?

Yes, exactly. I did the avionics redesign for the Series 400, wrote the AFMs, etc. I did all the deliveries for the first 3 years of production. I retired at the end of 2013.

Michael

Bit off topic here ... sorry

Great airplane! What a great job you had!
I flew with the late Giles Kershaw in the late 70's in Antarctica, he flying for BAS. (British Antarctic Survey) He and another Canadian pilot ferried a new Otter down from the factory using temp long range tanks. They flew to a BAS station on Antarctic peninsula.

I was lucky they came calling at Palmer Station (USARP). Most amazing pilot I ever met. He did stuff in an Otter you would not believe. Landing and taking off on random tabular ice bergs and doing mail drops was, ah ... exciting!

I also flew in Otter's with the Argentines, and years later all over Ethiopia with a Pilot that knew Giles before his untimely death. I have Otter stories!

Just to swerve gently back into the slipstream of the nearest big rig, I'd like to point out, as someone who rides a 125cc bike because he wants to, that the current 4 stroke crop are miles away from the 125's of yore. What with overhead doodads and balanced thingamajigs they vibrate far less than they used to. With better manufacturing processes, and higher consumer expectations, they won't shake themselves to pieces either.

A modern small bike (or scooter) can be huge fun, comfortable, and possibly more relaxing to potter about a continent on than a bigger, heavier bike that is straining at the leach to get up and go.

Most of it is about mindset though, vulnerability comes largely from within, a small bike loaded with luggage is almost as wide as a big bike so just as noticeable (or not) to the trucker coming up from behind, and to many road users the novelty of seeing something unusual on the road will I believe catch their eye and attention more than A N Other big bike.

If a guy touring on a 125cc gets knocked off, people say it wouldn't have happened if he'd been on a big bike. But accidents happen no matter what the bike. Let's not forget that old Ewan McActor got a hatchback up the backside despite being on a massive motorcycle, following two other guys on massive motorcycles.

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I am with you, Alexbrit, but at 200cc. Yes, I would push it up to 250cc, but my bike only comes in a 200cc. I commute just under 33 miles, roundtrip, a day on a Chinese 200cc enduro.


I had picked up a used version of my bike with some issues about 2 years ago. I found the distributor in So. Cal. and was very surprised in their service when I needed parts. I was also pleasantly surprised that the engine never needed servicing--it was usually a clutch cable here, a relay there. I rode for a year and a half and put 10k miles on it (based on 600 miles a month because the speedo/odo was already broken when I bought it with unknown mileage--it is Chinese after all!). So I can say with some confidence the bike has at least 10k miles on it.


I then decided a new one would be better. Back in April I ordered a brand new bike in a different color, and have been commuting on that putting 3400 km on the odo so far with only a few issues with light bulbs.


My commute is predominantly on two lane rural roads, the fastest posted road being 50 mph. However on the last 6 mile stretch on this road, my fellow commuters must know something I don't because they are easily topping 70 or 80. When they cannot pass me or others who don't want tickets, they seem quite frustrated, and are the only issue I see on my whole commute. However, the last few weeks, I have been seeing several of them pulled over (for long stretches of time, it was almost as if the police had forgotten about doing any kind of patrolling, so as the saying goes, "no cop, no stop" at stop lights was incorporated to be "no stop for top speed"), so speeds have been keeping much closer to the posted limit. My bike easily keeps a steady 60 to 65 mph, LOL.


Tying it in to my original post regarding the ride I found on advrider, I would have no hesitation taking my bike on a similar cross-country trek. There are a few parts I would carry (relay and CDI) and tools, but I would not be too concerned with the bike not making it. The old bike's engine still runs, even after sitting for long periods of time, so I know this 200 is stout! I would probably sort out a more southern route since I live near the Mexican/US border--Cannonball Baker's ride way back in 1914 from San Diego to New York in 11 days is intriguing, but I would do it as a tour, not a speed run (not sure how much speed he got back then, and as far as my bike goes for speed--did I mention it's Chinese?