Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > Northern and Central Asia
First to attempt the entire BAM? First to attempt the entire BAM?
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts
Northern and Central Asia Topics specific to Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Mongolia, China, Japan and Korea
Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

25 years of HU Events


Destination ANYWHERE...
Adventure EVERYWHERE!



Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27 Jan 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
Well, I don't agree. I mean that if someone claims to be the first (or fastest or whatever) they have to prove it. I think Guinness book of records share my view.
Huh? How can you prove that something has not happened?

I mean, I guess it is possible that someone at some point rode the BAM, swore everyone he met en route to eternal secrecy, and then never told anyone that he did it, but I'm not sure how you could prove it!

And who knows, maybe some crazy Russian biker/engineer rode the BAM back when it was first built, but I doubt we'll ever know at this point.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27 Jan 2011
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoreiter View Post
Huh? How can you prove that something has not happened?
That was exactly my point, so how can you tell if you are the first? You simply don't know.

Edit: I completely agreed with the quote from Colebatch ("The only other foreigners that I KNOW...."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27 Jan 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,117
So NASA can't say Neil Armstrong was the first man to walk on the moon - they "simply don't know" if someone did it earlier!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27 Jan 2011
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
So NASA can't say Neil Armstrong was the first man to walk on the moon - they "simply don't know" if someone did it earlier!
Doh you beat me to it and even used the same example
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27 Jan 2011
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
Similarly, everytime Kevin and Julia set a new record on their bikes ... they dont have to PROVE no one has done Alaska to Tierra del Fuego in less than their time. No-one can prove someone hadnt ridden it faster when they got into the Guinness book of records for their earlier rides. You cant prove some hippy in the 1960s didnt do it in 12 days, can you?

Simon and Lisa Thomas have a record, Simon and Monika Newbound also have one for the longest road trip by a couple. They can't prove no other couple has done it longer. Of course they cant.

These are just more examples ... if someone can prove otherwise, then do so, and the record will be amended. However, in the absence of contrary evidence, the claims are valid, and people like Kevin and Julia, Simon and Lisa, Simon and Monika and others, are entitled to their claims.

Out of curiosity Alibaba, what do you make of Helge Pedersen's claim to be the first to take a motorcycle through the Darien Gap? Obviously that is also impossible to prove. Correct?
Last edited by colebatch; 30 Jan 2011 at 14:01.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27 Jan 2011
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by colebatch View Post
Out of curiosity Alibaba, what do you make of Helge Pedersen's claim to be the first to take a motorcycle through the Darien Gap? Obviously that is also impossible to prove. Correct?
As far as I know he wasn't the first
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27 Jan 2011
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Thanks, I've learned a lot today.

Now I know it's okay to say you are the first who did something, even if you can't back it up. I'm sure it will be helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27 Jan 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
Now I know it's okay to say you are the first who did something, even if you can't back it up.
But first you have to actually get out of the armchair and go do it.

We can back up what we did (and when) attempting the entire BAM.
Can anyone else do the same - for themselves or others?

Let's be hearing you.....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27 Jan 2011
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
But first you have to actually get out of the armchair and go do it.
Aaahh, so you have to get out of the chair, then it doesn't fit me.


This is a nice worldmap, sadly I love my chair to much.
http://www.globeriders.com/about_pag..._BannerMap.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27 Jan 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
That was exactly my point, so how can you tell if you are the first? You simply don't know.
So what you are saying is that no one can ever claim to be the first to do anything? Because they cannot prove that no one else has done it? Please explain how someone could prove that no one has ridden the BAM before? Are you suggesting that we might find decades of newspaper archives from the area with headlines such as: "NO ONE RIDES THROUGH HERE ON A MOTORCYCLE--AGAIN!".

Frankly I find your position rather odd.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27 Jan 2011
Registered Users
HUBB regular
  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moscow
Posts: 86
gentlemen,
can i say a word?

as i worked for the only soviet motorcycling magazine and the editor of the travelling department of the mag who by some coincidence was the head of Soviet and then Russian Committee for motorcycle travelling worked at the desk in the next room
i believe the information on any foreign mototravellers between year 1991-2002 was available to me.
there was no story about riding BAM road
it should be clear for any one - it was a road of no significance leading nowhere. what's more - no foreign person could be let go along strategic railroad in that times. not possible. it was a forbidden route.

the main road was ( and is) THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY which was fully surfaced with tarmac only a year ago.
in soviet era it was the same hell as road to magadan now and the goal of any traveller was to do it.

if some still need some proof from history please contact Mr. Ivan Ksenofontov ksenofontov@zr.ru who is the very editor.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27 Jan 2011
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by motobelka View Post
gentlemen,
can i say a word?

as i worked for the only soviet motorcycling magazine and the editor of the travelling department of the mag who by some coincidence was the head of Soviet and then Russian Committee for motorcycle travelling worked at the desk in the next room
i believe the information on any foreign mototravellers between year 1991-2002 was available to me.
Very interesting, do you have any information about the attempt of driving around the polar circle in 1992?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27 Jan 2011
Contributing Member
HUBB regular
  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NZ
Posts: 39
Gentlemen

Clearly the claim to be the first stands until proven otherwise.

This is a common scientific procedure and the research works leading up to this claim does appears to have significant weight.

So until proven otherwise, colebatch and crew have the rights to this claim.

Just my 2c

kim
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27 Jan 2011
AliBaba's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx4eva View Post
Gentlemen

Clearly the claim to be the first stands until proven otherwise.

This is a common scientific procedure and the research works leading up to this claim does appears to have significant weight.

So until proven otherwise, colebatch and crew have the rights to this claim.

Just my 2c

kim
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
Now I know what they mean with "first" and I don't have any problems with that.
......
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Up to 20% OFF Opie Oils Entire MOTUL Bike Range oilman The HUBB PUB 0 12 Aug 2010 17:08
Safety situation in the entire Sahara Tango North Africa 15 24 Sep 2009 10:30
Is it Possible to traverse the entire USA off road? Fastship North America 25 26 Jun 2008 10:13
Imminent attempt on the Darien Stretcher Monkey Central America and Mexico 34 8 Apr 2007 16:43
Coup (attempt ?) in Mauritania andrasz North Africa 1 9 Jun 2003 05:47

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
Ecuador June 13-15
Bulgaria Mini: June 27-29
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Aug 14-17
Romania: Aug 22-24
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
New York: October 9-12 NEW!
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

2026 Confirmed Dates:
(get your holidays booked!)

Virginia: April 23-26
Queensland: May 1-4
CanWest: July 9-12

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)

Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

Your ad could be here, on EVERY page of the HUBB, or the whole website, or as many as you like!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:56.

Contact Us - Horizons Unlimited Motorcycle Travellers Website - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top