If I haven't quite explained this well to this point, consider this example: As you know from your time in Canada and the USA, it's perfectly acceptable to pass on the right (kerbside) of other traffic on a multi-lane roadway - everyone does it all the time. I mean, if someone is loafing in the farside lane, but the nearside lane is clear, you just change lanes and pass them on the kerbside. Now, if I were to do that in the UK, would I be stopped by the police? You bet I would. And if I explained my perfect logic to the policeman as follows: "The other guy was loafing in the farside lane, and the nearside lane was empty, so I just passed on the nearside - makes perfect sense", do you think the policeman would agree with me? Not bloody likely.

Michael
We call it 'undertaking' here and it's not illegal. I do it a lot on motorways when someone is hogging the central lane. It only becomes an offence if it's done in a dangerous manner.
As for your earlier example all I can say is that if logic suggests that it's daft to come to a complete stop when it's not necessary, such as in the middle of nowhere with clear views in all directions, we don't. I can think of one exception and that is crossing over solid white lines in the middle of the road, one of my former favourite ticketing offences. These are put there to keep opposing traffic apart and to me are 'set in stone'.
We've not heard much from you lately in 'the other place'.
Regards
Paul

Hi Paul:

Ah, you have identified a perfect example of 'norms and customs' differences - that is a far better example than the one I picked (undertaking). In most provinces of Canada, the legislation respecting passing other vehicles (the solid line) states that the motorist may only pass "when it is safe to do so", and the lines painted on the roadways are there to provide guidance, not regulation. There is no legislation of any kind that says "you can't cross a solid line".

Thus, if you passed another vehicle by crossing over a solid line and there were no other vehicles present or coming at you in the other direction, it would be impossible to be convicted of unsafe passing.

As for the 'other place' - I've been kind of busy lately, it's tough for me to handle more than one or two forums.

Michael

Just to clear things up for anyone thinking it is legal to undertake, I have copied this from the UK Highway Code:
Quote: 242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. Unquote.
Undertaking (even sounds dangerous ) is not something I would do, other than in the quoted circumstances above, ie: heavy taffic. Even then it would be done with EXTREME caution Most car drivers in this country can't see a bike in front of them, let alone one coming up the (wrong) side of them If you are seen performing this manouvre by a traffic cop in anything other than the quoted circumstances, he/she will prosecute you If I'm in such a rush, I'm late
Quote from here: The Highway Code



Trophymick

TrophyMick

You are quoting from the Highway Code and what they give is ADVICE, it is not LAW. I'll repeat myself, there is no offence of 'undertaking', none at all, any more than there is an offence of 'filtering'. The only offences which might be committed is that of driving without due car & attention or dangerous/reckless/careless driving, and if the undertake is carried out properly and safely, neither of these can be applied. Of course there's always a risk that the vehicle being overtaken will pull over but then I've had plenty of drivers pull over on me when passing to the right of them. For part of my former career, I was a Traffic Officer and I believe my driving/riding is of a very high standard, and I simply don't do things on the road which puts the lives of me/my passengers/other road users at risk. As I said before, I undertake often when approaching middle lane hoggers who just bimble along completely oblivious to what they are doing. It keeps them out of the lefthand lane and the lorries, and the righthand lane with the fast traffic. They feel safe (if a little deluded).

I'll repeat myself as well then It is still a manouvre that is dangerous, whether it is a 'YOU MUST NOT' rule or not, it is advisory, and for good reason. And if a driver takes you out whilst you are performing such a manouvre, he will be in the right, in the eyes of the law, try it and see You (as you yourself state) are leaving yourself open to a charge of driving without due care and attention or worse, and to propegate that it is a perfectly legal and safe manouvre is wrong, especially on a forum that includes riders/drivers from other countries, that may not be fully aware of our laws I am a member of the IAM and I was trained by police officers (motorcycle), but this does not make me invincable, but even more aware of potential dangers
I will continue to do it my way (safe IMHO), and you no doubt will continue to do it your way, but be careful out there

Trophymick

I stopped reading most of this thread awhile ago, but to the point of the rider that received a ticket in Arizona, I wouldn't worry about it. I live in Colorado, and receive an occasional ticket. I do pay them, but at times I've forgotten about one in another state and I get a letter in the mail telling me I have to pay it or I will get arrested next time I'm in that state. I received this letter about two months after I forgot to pay the ticket. And the letter said I still had a month to pay it. So unless you're going to be taking your time (and why not) accross North America, Alaska isn't going to know or care by the time you get there.

With regards to safety means stopping at a stop sign, sometimes, I feel like it's safer for ME, as a rider, to not stop at a stop sign. Moving is better on a motorcylcle in most places, and if ME being as safe as I can be on the road means the occasional ticket, then it's worth it. So I'm going to accellerate through someone's blind spot when I pass, and if I get a ticket then so be it. Most cops I've dealt with understand a motorcycle riders plight, and cut a lot of us some slack. Girlfriend is here. Gotta go. See you in Silverton, CO I hope.

Love the site, it's inspiring.

__________________
Four wheels good. Two wheels better.

"and to propegate that it is a perfectly legal and safe manouvre is wrong"

Well it IS legal but as for SAFE, well motorcycle riding isn't safe anyway. Sometimes I think we must all be mugs for relying on two small pieces of rubber on the road to keep us safe. But we just love riding, don't we? I think we must agree to disagree on this point. And I haven't even mentioned tailgaters here ;-) Ride safe friend.

Why stop at a four way stop - heck, let the other three drivers will stop!

Just kidding.

Spoken like a true Californian...LOL (the origin of the infamous "California roll")