In one news report about Libya:

This implies that if you had to pick a side to pass through, the southeast side would be better than the southwest (for Westerners), since the Toubou have positive feelings about them.

I don't have a carnet. Apparently, it's hard/impossible to enter Egypt (via Sudan) without a carnet.

Therefore, I'm planning to get to Libya via Chad, so this discussion has been useful.

I've driven in much of the Western Sahara, but this section I know little about.

I look forward to your advice.

__________________
- Francis Tapon
Traveling nonstop to all 54 African countries 2013-2018

Good luck.

Please don't create a situation where others have to risk their lives to get you out of trouble you could/should have avoided.

Safe travels, Sam.

Thanks, Sam. I have Kidnapping and Ransom insurance for the last 3 years.

There seems a "piste" going from Ounianga Kebir, Chad to the north and reaching Kufra, Libya. If anyone has driven it, let me know....

__________________
- Francis Tapon
Traveling nonstop to all 54 African countries 2013-2018

Your insurance is not going to help you if you are taken - the guys in the helicopters putting their lives on the line to come and get you will.

Don't take your risks with their lives.

Sam is right to discourage but helicopter rescue? Great in the movies, not such a great success rate for Saharan abductees:
French helicopters comb Mali skies | News24
Two French journalists abducted, killed in northern Mali | Reuters

I think these days plain old robbery and perhaps a shallow grave is more likely in southern Libya, especially if you have a tasty, well-equipped jeep.

Although it was and maybe still is a regular route for the gros porteur trucks, I know of only one or two Saharan tourists who drove north Chad – Kurfa - and that was in the good decades. Even then, southbound was easier, iirc.
Basing your route by interpreting a news report [source] that may have been written by a reporter who's never been to Libya, is winging it a bit. Just because one group were enemies of long-dead Ghadafi won't necessarily make them your pals today. I don't suppose AQIM or Ghadafi ever saw eye to eye either.
Could be wrong but it's hard to think that insurance, even for K&R, would be valid in southern Libya any more than Iraq.

Last I heard the Tubu in Kufra were still at it with whatever faction happens to be their enemy on the day - maybe even rival Tubu? And from Kufra you go where, if not Egypt?

It's going to get costly either way. If you don't get a carnet or pay the alternative in Egypt, I'd simply cross Chad (escort required in west Sudan) into Cameron and then Nigeria (but carnet also required to get visa, last I heard).

__________________
Adventure Motorcycling Handbook 8 • Morocco Overland 3 • Overlanders Handbook 2 • Twit

Hi Chris,

Can't believe you kyboshed my annual melodramatic post!

Safe travels!

Sam.


PS just come back from a trip to the Sudanese desert - recommended!

All traffic on the Ounianga - Kufra route has now ceased, the only route still used between Chad & Libya is the Faya - Sebha piste along the western side of the Tibesti. Even the camel trade takes this much longer route. The situation in Kufra is unclear, the local Zuweya and Tibu have been peacefully killing each other for the past 3-4 years, with the occasional militia pickups from Benghazi coming down to fire a few rounds to separate them. The grapewine suggests that there is a lucrative illicit trade passing through the SE corner of Libya and Kufra between rebel-held Darfur and Benghazi, with migrants going one way, arms etc. the other.

In Chad you need an "Autorisation de Circuler" to travel anywhere outside N'Djamena, and no, you cannot get one to continue North to Libya (and you need a very good story to go anywhere North of Faya / Fada). The Chadian military has strong presence in the North, and the chances of slipping past them in violation of your permit is pretty slim.

To sum it up, perhaps attempting Ounianga - Kufra at present is not the best idea, but if you do give it a go, and make it through without getting in to the news, I'll be happy to pay for a pint or two to hear the story.

PS: Sam, where did you go? We were at Uweinat last month from Sudan, it was a perfect trip.

__________________
Happy Travels, András
http://www.fjexpeditions.com

Francis, just realised from your sig: 'Traveling nonstop to all 54 African countries …' that it may be just a matter of ticking off Libya to say you've been there, rather than using it as an alternative transit to Egypt because you have no carnet.
In that case I believe a guided excursion to Tubu-controlled Murzuk could be organised from the Zouar area, notwithstanding the AdC requirements Andras mentions.

True, but if you read most of the news reports (like the one you sourced), they report on inter-tribal violence. Often they ignore whites (e.g., innocent bystanders) in the vendettas.

I'm covered throughout Africa. I agree with Sam that it may not save anyone's life, but it's better than nothing.

After Kufra, I would go to the Egypt border in NE Libya.

What's "the alternative in Egypt"?

The only one I've heard is the TIP, where you put an $800 deposit, which you collect when you leave.
That would be great IF I could enter Egypt from Sudan and exit via Libya (and get my deposit back).
However, in other countries, they want you to enter and exit from the same border post.
That wouldn't work for me, which is why I am considering this Chad-Libya route.

(FYI: You don't need a carnet for Nigeria. I've been there 4 times in the last 2 years and never had a carnet. I got my visa first and go my "Laisser Passer" or TIP.)

András, thanks for the info. Do I get an "Autorisation de Circuler" from N'Djamena or can I get it from a Chad Embassy or from another authority within Chad? I prefer NOT going to N'Djamena.

I want to enter Chad from Sudan and head north to Faya to do Emi Koussi and Libya's tallest peak (Bikku Bitti, which is on the Chad border).

After summitting Bikku Bitti, I'd like to continue north to Libya, either on the western or eastern side. I figured the eastern side is better, but Andras says that route is no longer being used. I never expected any route to get more than 10 cars per year. As long as it's viable and not swarming with terrorists, I'm fine with being lonely in 1000 km.

Chris, I'm not only visiting each country, I'm trying to spend 5 weeks on average in each country AND summitting the tallest peak of each country. So that adds complications.

__________________
- Francis Tapon
Traveling nonstop to all 54 African countries 2013-2018

Much as you describe afaik, the $800 deposit deal, and I am sure I've heard of people doing this many years ago. In the Egypt of today though, who knows what the rules are. But sounds like after Libya you are going to Egypt anyway?

Re carnet for Nigeria - must be for Brits only then (as of a few months ago).

I presume you have contacted Ginge F re: BB summit. Sounds like much more than a simple walk, like Emi K.

Yes, but because Egypt is such a pain in the to bring a car in (without a carnet) that I was thinking about either:

a) Leaving the car in a secure spot for a month near the Egypt-Libya border (Bardiyah) while I take public transport into Egypt.

b) Paying the $800 deposit and then returning to the same border to recover it. It seems more likely to recover the money if I return to the same border I left it at.


Yes, I've spoken to Ginge and BB is indeed a logistical nightmare to get to. You can see it marked on this map below as Bette Peak. Since it's so near the border, I'd rather plow into Libya and then go to the Northeast corner (Bardiyah) and execute either plan (a) or (b) above - assuming I don't get executed first!

__________________
- Francis Tapon
Traveling nonstop to all 54 African countries 2013-2018

The Ounianga - Kufra route is not used because now even the Tibou consider it too risky - and that is saying something. Oh, did I mention all tracks North of Faya / Fada are randomly mined, and without a good local guide you are risking more than lost pride...

The Authorisation de Circuler can only be obtained in N'Djamena. The Sudan/Chad border is closed for everyone except UN and some NGO-s, there is no way to get anywhere close to the border (legally) on the Sudanese side.

If you are really serious about this, use the contact Ginge I'm sure mentioned or suggested. He might be able to help, but bear in mind that help comes at a pretty hefty price in Chad.

__________________
Happy Travels, András
http://www.fjexpeditions.com

Andras,

Thanks for the info.
I hadn't heard that the Chad-Sudan border was closed.
One more obstacle.

I hope this doesn't mean that I have to drive through the CAR again.

Although I understand the dangers of driving to Kufra, sometimes I wonder why people think it's got bandits.
If you were a bandit/kidnapper, would you hang out in the middle of the desert for months without a water source, just on the hope that some tourist will drive near your spot?
Perhaps.
But it just seems easier to hang out in Kufra and kidnap/steal from him there.

I'd be happy to get a good local guide.
Do you know any?

Thanks!

__________________
- Francis Tapon
Traveling nonstop to all 54 African countries 2013-2018

Francis,

Just back from Chad (superb & problem free trip to the Ennedi), can confirm everything in my previous post is valid. Ounianga-Kufra route firmly closed, only route left open is the one to the west of Tibesti. That seems to be in regular use, we saw many Libyan trucks in Kalait and Abeche.

Authorisation de Circuler is taken very seriously, many checkpoints due to BH threat, fast & friendly if papers in order but no go without them.

The issue with Kufra is not bandits along the way, but the problem of the ongoing squabbles (on occasion involving RPG-s and similar compelling arguments) between the Tibou who control the area up to Kufra and the Zuweya at Kufra and beyond. It is a dead end even if you could get there.

To my understanding with the civil war in CAR an BH around Lake Chad, the only overland access to Chad is from Cameroon, and possibly to/from Libya on the western route.

Contact me via my website for more info and local contacts who might be able to help.

__________________
Happy Travels, András
http://www.fjexpeditions.com

Hey this is really interesting news. This visa is for 30 days that's good but if we want to stay more than 30 days then what we need to do?