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Photo by George Guille, It's going to be a long 300km... Bolivian Amazon

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by George Guille
It's going to be a long 300km...
Bolivian Amazon



Trans Sahara Routes.

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  #16  
Old 10 Jan 2011
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On scenario I am interpreting from reading the above is that the French guys were killed in Niger during the first rescue attempt in the night near Ouallam (where it was initially reported the Nigerienne forces backed off for fear of killing the hostages).
AQIM then fled back to Mali 'safe haven' by which time the French had been mobilised and took them on there, possibly knowing the 2 guys were already dead and so without needing to hold back unduly.

Ch

but from what follows below, perhaps this was a generous interpretation. C

Last edited by Chris Scott; 13 Jan 2011 at 10:11.
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  #17  
Old 10 Jan 2011
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A detail added by this report
French helicopters comb Mali skies: News24: Africa: News
notes that four French choppers, based in Menaka, took part in the attack on Saturday.

This is either additional to the reported choppers from Ouga or else one of the reports is not right. Menaka is well located between Niamey and NE Mali to make the intercept.
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  #18  
Old 10 Jan 2011
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One of them was a just new worker in my company (Capgemini).
Quote:
Originally Posted by priffe View Post
Good coverage in French. Aqmi serait bien-a-l-origine-du-rapt

The victims, very young.
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  #19  
Old 10 Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Washington View Post
Info from those kidnapped themselves in the recent past has not been forthcoming either (as far as I can tell). Its only been the Canadian diplomat who provided useful details. My guess is that those who have been set free have been asked to keep details away from the public domain.

Richard, can you say more about what you've seen on the ground?
I think it is an open secret that the French mil are in Mauri to stay and in a significant capacity. Just as it sounds like they are in Mali

In December there were daily military flights of cargo planes, helicopters and what looked (to my non spotter eyes) like prop-engined trainers over and around Atar. Even a couple of times the rattle of canon fire and explosions (French/Mauritanian target exercises apparently).

So presumably they are training the Mauri's and one would speculate providing air support way out East to where the real activity looks to be. Also lots of stories of big army convoys trucking out that way.
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  #20  
Old 11 Jan 2011
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BBC News - Niger seizes suspects in French hostage 'killings'

Niger holding 2 suspects in French killings-sources | News by Country | Reuters
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  #21  
Old 11 Jan 2011
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Ennahar Online - Mali: Shots by French helicopters, vehicles of the kidnappers burned
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  #22  
Old 12 Jan 2011
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It says the bodies of the French were charred, which if true raises questions for how the French handled it. As usual, one may doubt we will hear the whole story.
MBM implicated Ennahar Online - URGENT: Belmokhtar has sponsored the abduction of two French
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  #23  
Old 13 Jan 2011
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And it seems too that only one was killed by a shot from a gun.
It looks like the french army have fired the kidnapper's 4x4 (with hosatges inside it) from an helicopter....

[url=http://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2011/01/12/des-zones-d-ombre-demeurent-apres-l-execution-des-otages-au-mali_1464406_3212.html]Niger : des zones d'ombre demeurent apr


Edit: In English

Last edited by Chris Scott; 13 Jan 2011 at 11:31.
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  #24  
Old 13 Jan 2011
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Thanks for posting the article Roro, its an interesting read.

On the whole I think the discussion about 'which bullet killed whom' misses the critical point. It turns out that the military engaged with the kidnappers and there was a scrap. When this kind of decision is made, the chances are people will die and choosing precisely who dies is not possible.

The new thing is that the kidnappers were not given safe passage. And the only way that previous parties could have gotten to NE Mali is if that safe passage was ensured. Think of the 2003 event when the second group 'slipped' through Amguid and southern Algeria 'without being noticed'. Think of the Austrians who were taken all the way from Tunisia to NE Mali and the Spanish who went all the way from the coast road in Mauri to NE Mali. The only way those journeys would have been possible would have been under conditions of 'no engagement'. For whatever reason, the French changed the rules this time. Maybe it was to stem the escalation of AQIM boldness (from Arlit to Niamey). Maybe it was because hits like this in a capital city can't go unchecked. Maybe it was because the western governments realize they are completely powerless when the hostages reach NE Mali. Tragic for the young French guys though.

If AQIM return to Niamey it will surely be because they want a war. And I don't think this is their motive. They like to make sensational hits but this must be coupled with making money too. If they wanted to annoy France, there is all sorts of infrastructure they could hit with little or no risk to themselves. Importantly they choose not to. War for them, seems like an avoidable side issue. But making money is key.
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  #25  
Old 13 Jan 2011
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Latest statement from AQIM:

UPDATE 1-Al Qaeda claims kidnapping of Frenchmen found dead | News by Country | Reuters

French claiming that some of the abducters were wearing Nigerien gendarme uniforms and that they fired on French forces.
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  #26  
Old 13 Jan 2011
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From the article DTH has just posted:

Abu Mohammed, who identified himself as a media official for Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) ....... said the abduction came "in the context of responding to France's repressive policies against Muslims and its participation in the crusade in Afghanistan".

AQIM has also abducted nationals from Togo and Madagascar (in the raid on Arlit) which makes a nonsense of this sort of statement.
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  #27  
Old 13 Jan 2011
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I would say if money is the prime motive, then dont get distracted with sensational/risky hits like Niamey, although really I think Niamey was mostly convenient.

'... left alone if he does not engage in hostile action on our soil' it says here of MBM in Mali.
Maybe that explains why the last 5 grabs have not been in Mali even if all are destined to end there. If Col. El Hadj gets a slice of the pay out, no harm done as far as he's concerned.

Would it be possible to conceal the fact that there were French gunships based in Menaka, right on their path out (as suggested)? You'd imagine not.

We all know that hostage rescues go wrong, like the Scottish woman in Afghanistan, but assuming we have the right end of the stick, this does not sound like much of a rescue. Why not keep going and shoot out the camps where other 5-7 Arevas are holed up in north Mali. That could finish off AQIM up there at the cost of a few colaterals.
I suppose the French are now bargaining on the 'human shield' aspect of no reprisals on the Arevas.

On the whole I think the discussion about 'which bullet killed whom' misses the critical point.

If the gunships went in blazing without warning and knowing the 2 guys were in there, it's a whole new ball game. But we may never know that for sure.

I wonder how it's all going down with French public. It's a bold bluff to call but could put an end to French being targets. Perhaps a quick scandal will help bury it, or the French can see the big picture.

Ch
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  #28  
Old 14 Jan 2011
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From the latest reports it sounds even worse - that nigerian soldiers and french have exchanged fire, which may lie behind the confusion of this story (reports of 'terrorists in nigerian uniforms' + at first, the French reported two Aqim in Nigerian custody which was later denied by Niamey). All the victims may have been caused by 'friendly' fire! Oh boy how morbid.
If any truth to this, a major success for Aqim and a major blunder for Sarkozy.
Otages : des terroristes portaient l'uniforme de la gendarmerie nigerienne
Des zones d'ombre dans l'accrochage entre Aqmi et les forces spéciales françaises, actualité Défense ouverte : Le Point
Quote:
...But two injured and two dead policemen wore uniforms Nigerians. And our soldiers have found that men who wore uniforms Nigerians fought against us and were not hindered. This is not for us, but to Nigerians, to explain what happened. "

Precisely, a senior Nigerian unidentified has "explained" from Agence France-Presse in Niamey. His version is clear: "We had a damaged military vehicle at the scene where the French army stormed. Our men who died on the spot on Malian territory, were shot dead by French soldiers. I not saying that French soldiers were on purpose, but the military (Niger) whose bodies were returned by the French in Niamey French died of gunfire, "he said, referring to" three "Nigerian soldiers killed.
And the outrageous but totally plausible idea that the kidnappings are carried out often far away from Malian soil as part of an agreement - they may keep their hostages on the outskirts of Timbuktu as long as they pick them up in Niger/Mauri. WOW!

Trying to take take control of Menaka would make sense but I really think they couldn't have choppers there, they must've come from Ouaga?
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  #29  
Old 14 Jan 2011
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If Col. El Hadj gets a slice of the pay out, no harm done as far as he's concerned.

I know the Colonel and I seriously doubt that he's on AQMI payroll! As a friend in Kidal told me -- AQMI and Kel Tamashek are like the jackal and the lion in the desert. They avoid one another because it wouldn't be advantageous to either.
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  #30  
Old 14 Jan 2011
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That's what the Touareg and their friends say, but when there's loads of money involved things might be different.
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