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30 May 2019
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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ETIAS visa/Schengen Area
I will admit it.
I'm stumped.
And I'm looking for advice/opinions/observations/points that I might have missed.
I'm in the planning stages of my first Post-Retirement trip - one summer in Europe.
( 1 May until 1 October - possibly as early as 2020, more likely in 2021)
The part that baffles me is how to deal with the 90-day restriction on ETIAS visa / Schengen Area
ETIAS visa / Schengen Area countries are:
Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.
I'm planning on:
Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark,
Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, UK, Ireland, France
So....any advice/opinions/observations/points that I might have missed ?
Getting an extension on a ETIAS/Schengen visa doesn't appear to be do-able (without claiming asylum, etc.)
Your thoughts?
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30 May 2019
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Registered Users
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You can flip between Schengen and non-Schengen countries and extend your trip almost indefinitely, an American friend of mine did this a couple of years ago and spent nearly a year in Europe.
I am not sure how long you have to be out of the region before you can re-enter but as long as you have a return ticket and can explain why you want to re-enter I was told that the immigration officials were fairly flexible.
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30 May 2019
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I spent last summer in Europe. Faced the same 90-day Schengen area restriction. Stretched beyond that timeframe by spending time in non-Schengen countries. It’s a bummer but something that needs to get factored into your planning. You could consider getting an extension in certain countries for coursework such as a language course in France.
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30 May 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark manley
You can flip between Schengen and non-Schengen countries and extend your trip almost indefinitely, an American friend of mine did this a couple of years ago and spent nearly a year in Europe.
I am not sure how long you have to be out of the region before you can re-enter but as long as you have a return ticket and can explain why you want to re-enter I was told that the immigration officials were fairly flexible.
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Specifically:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/
"How many times can I enter the EU with an ETIAS?
You can enter the Schengen member states for as many times as you want, for as long as your ETIAS is valid, and you have not stayed more than 90 days in a 180 days period."
So yes, getting out of Schengen (meaning: into the UK/Romania/Bulgaria/Croatia) does suspend your 90-day counter, but it does not reset it. If you want to spend a year in Europe, you will need to spend 90 out of each 180 days outside Schengen.
Now, since OP wants to be in Europe from May to the start of October, that's 5 months - he will need to spend a cumulative ~2 months outside of the Schengen zone. Fortunately, countries outside the Schengen zone include some really good moto travel destinations - everything between Greece and Slovenia/Hungary, Morocco, Scotland...
How much border guards will care to enforce the 90-days-out-of-180 clause is an open question. Entirely possible that they won't care, especially with a US passport holder. But don't bet your entire agenda on it.
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30 May 2019
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That's....pretty much what I figured.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see three options here (in no specific order):
1. Adjust my route(s) to accommodate ETIAS/Schengen limitations - THEN the other countries
1a. Adjust the other way - other countries first then ETIAS/Schengen
2. Attempt to keep "under the radar" for the full five months and - at worst - claim ignorance.
3. Make two trips to Europe
Sigh.
I understand (and somewhat agree with) what the lawmakers are trying to accomplish.
People all over the world - in almost every country - are overstaying Tourist & Student visas.
I understand. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
Again - Thanks !
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30 May 2019
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My experience over the last 10 years of motorhoming in Europe for 3 to 6 months most years is that they are getting stricter about overstay every year. Computer systems are linked across the whole Schengen zone and they keep track of where you are up to with the 90/180 count.
Plenty of options for leaving the zone, but need to consider whether part days at the beginning and end are counted as full days and not to use up the whole 90 days befire going to say Morocco for 90 days because it is hard to be out of Schengen for 90 days using a 90 day stay in Morocco. UK and Republic of Ireland are useful because neither are in Schengen and you can stay for 9 months of more between the two.
Some countries - Oz and NZ have grandfathered special arrangements with several countries that override Schengen and can get you an extra few months if you can play the system
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31 May 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony LEE
My experience over the last 10 years of motorhoming in Europe for 3 to 6 months most years is that they are getting stricter about overstay every year. Computer systems are linked across the whole Schengen zone and they keep track of where you are up to with the 90/180 count.
Plenty of options for leaving the zone, but need to consider whether part days at the beginning and end are counted as full days and not to use up the whole 90 days befire going to say Morocco for 90 days because it is hard to be out of Schengen for 90 days using a 90 day stay in Morocco. UK and Republic of Ireland are useful because neither are in Schengen and you can stay for 9 months of more between the two.
Some countries - Oz and NZ have grandfathered special arrangements with several countries that override Schengen and can get you an extra few months if you can play the system
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I may (stress MAY here) have overthought this.
According to the official Websites for each of the countries that I listed above (the ones I plan to visit) a Schengen Visa is NOT required.....
Apparently, nor is a country-specific Visa (Ukraine, Hungary, etc.)
ALL of them list (as of today) NO Visa requirement for Tourists with valid US Passport holders, with stays (generally) ranging from 90 to 180 days.
A little less than half of them require me to show "sufficient funds" and a return airplane ticket. (Poland, Latvia, Netherlands, etc.)
So.....I may have overthought this.
What d'you think?
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1 Jun 2019
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You have literally misunderstood what Schengen is. 
As a US passport holder, once you get an ETIAS, you have a 90-day right of stay in *the entire Schengen area*. You don't need separate visas for Schengen countries any more than a European coming to the US on an ESTA would need a separate visa for Virginia and a separate visa for Georgia.
From the point when you first enter a Schengen country with your US passport (visa-free, just with the ETIAS done online), you can spend a cumulative 90 days inside all Schengen countries together, within the next 180 days. So a cumulative 90 days out of those 180 would have to be spent outside Schengen - in the Balkans, in the UK and Ireland, in Morocco, in Ukraine, etc. You can cross in and out of Schengen as you please during these 180 days. What counts is the combined number of days you've been within Schengen.
Quote:
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Apparently, nor is a country-specific Visa (Ukraine, Hungary, etc.)
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Hungary is inside Schengen. (Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia aren't, even though they're in the EU.) Ukraine is outside Schengen and has a separate visa-waiver scheme for US passport holders, I believe.
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6 Jun 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnTyx
Specifically:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/
"How many times can I enter the EU with an ETIAS?
You can enter the Schengen member states for as many times as you want, for as long as your ETIAS is valid, and you have not stayed more than 90 days in a 180 days period."
So yes, getting out of Schengen (meaning: into the UK/Romania/Bulgaria/Croatia) does suspend your 90-day counter, but it does not reset it. If you want to spend a year in Europe, you will need to spend 90 out of each 180 days outside Schengen.
Now, since OP wants to be in Europe from May to the start of October, that's 5 months - he will need to spend a cumulative ~2 months outside of the Schengen zone. Fortunately, countries outside the Schengen zone include some really good moto travel destinations - everything between Greece and Slovenia/Hungary, Morocco, Scotland...
How much border guards will care to enforce the 90-days-out-of-180 clause is an open question. Entirely possible that they won't care, especially with a US passport holder. But don't bet your entire agenda on it. |
Correct, but they do care. So keep track, as the penalty can be a 5 year suspension the area again.
FYI, Morocco is beautiful and also out of the inclusion zone.
Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
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Greg "WANDRR" Turp
2WANDRRs.com
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6 Jun 2019
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Gold Member
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnTyx
You have literally misunderstood what Schengen is.
As a US passport holder, once you get an ETIAS, you have a 90-day right of stay in *the entire Schengen area*. You don't need separate visas for Schengen countries any more than a European coming to the US on an ESTA would need a separate visa for Virginia and a separate visa for Georgia.
From the point when you first enter a Schengen country with your US passport (visa-free, just with the ETIAS done online), you can spend a cumulative 90 days inside all Schengen countries together, within the next 180 days. So a cumulative 90 days out of those 180 would have to be spent outside Schengen - in the Balkans, in the UK and Ireland, in Morocco, in Ukraine, etc. You can cross in and out of Schengen as you please during these 180 days. What counts is the combined number of days you've been within Schengen.
Hungary is inside Schengen. (Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia aren't, even though they're in the EU.) Ukraine is outside Schengen and has a separate visa-waiver scheme for US passport holders, I believe. |
I entered Ukraine by bike on passport alone. Green card also valid there.
Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
__________________
Greg "WANDRR" Turp
2WANDRRs.com
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