Since you asked ( elsewhere. )
When you leave Mexico at the south border before the 180 days of the TVIP are used up you have a choice as to whether you cancel the TVIP or not.
ONE - if you are going into Guatemala or Belize for a short time and returning to Mexico before the TVIP expires you may hold onto it .
TWO - if the TVIP will expire while you are out of Mexico and in Central America then you should cancel it and collect your security deposit refund

__________________
http://advrider.com/index.php?thread....207964/page-5 then scroll down to post #93

Ah you caught that did you....

Thanks, we will be leaving MX and spending the rest of the time over the year(s) south of MX given we hope to use the Guatemala Hostel as a hub and storage after we get there during that time.

Also, any idea what we need to do (if anything) for keeping bikes in Guatemala? Do they have the same mandatory 3rd party insurance thingy like MX for example and do they have a TVIP thingy with expirey dates or....?

Ps: can someone point me to info about what our options are if we can't get back within the 180 days and get out of MX so we can go into this ride idea "eyes wide open"?

Guy,
Okay ,now that you reveal all the routes you have already done in Mexico I would make a change in suggested routing .
With PUERTO VALLARTA as the goal you have freed up at least two days for a less hectic pace .
I figure that travellers beginning Mexico , or anywhere new, should try to do DIFFERENT roads each trip as long as possible . That is, don't immediately get into the rut of retracing the same roads on a second visit just because you might feel comfortable with them ; before you realize it you will be be like a rat running a familiar maze to the same resort year after year. Repeats should be saved for later and for special segments that you can incorporate as short bits joining new roads.
So it looks as if your #2. idea of doing the 10 south and via Chihuahua and the 24 to Parral is actually a very good plan . Doesn't matter if it is not as curvy as expected , you'll make up for that elsewhere. It will get you to Durango a bit faster so that you can take the 23 south at a more relaxed pace.
But don't feel as if you are obligated to follow the numbered federal highways that you see on your ROJI or googlemaps . These sources can be incomplete or out of date as you discovered with the 23 south out of Durango.
In Chihuahua state there are plenty of other paved new state highways south of Nvo Casas Grandes ( via Madera or Gomez Farias or Namiquipa or Las Murallas) which offer variety and scenery to get you to Cuauhtemoc and the start of Mex 24 . You don't even need to stick to 24 if it is too bland ( not likely) for you because at Valerio you can turn off west onto the side road labelled to BALLEZA (but you later turn east to Parral via Huejotitan and only repeat 30km of Mex 24) mostly paved with some construction and a nice easy adventure ride .

I would even go so far as to suggest you race down from PG along the east front of the Rockies and head straight for the border crossing in El Paso- CD JUAREZ and put together some routes south from there It surely will be new to you.

Yes that road Mex 23 from Durango south is now paved to Jesus Maria ( it's in your guidebook. with a hotel ; ) and BEYOND .
South of JM there was still about 20 km of unpaved two years ago going down the mountain , but that may be less or gone by now as construction was progressing actively from the south . In any case the entire road south to Mex 15 can easily be done in comfort on your KLR and 650 VStrom ... but WHAT is a ULY ?( Ural ? Unlimited Yamaha ?)

The road is really nice very mountainous and forested with lots of lower desert , a lot of very thinly populated back country .It runs to Estacion Ruiz which is 5km or so east of the Mex 15 Libre ( where do you locate San Lorenzo ? I can't find it on my ROJI)
Then you can put your time to use to have a look at Mexcaltitan and down the coast via San Blas.
If you think you are going to get to PV too soon there are some scenic mountain roads you can explore east of that resort .

As for bike storage in PV- not a problem as long as you get to remove them from Mexico before TVIP expires . If that is not possible be prepared to forfeit the security deposit, contact BANJERCITO and arrange your permit for exit future extraction .( see related posts under this thread here on HU this same forum
Long term parking for my motorbike near Cancun. )

Re: insurance for Guatemala - it is hard to impossible to buy for tourists in GT . Arrange it via internet sources before you travel there.
In Mexico if you get to the south border it is possible to cancel the TVIP , then store the bike inside Mexico eg in Tapachula area or Chetumal , one of the border towns in that southern frontier zone of Chiapas or Quintana Roo . You have your deposit back and on paper the bike is out of Mexico . Return and go straight out of Mexico with the bike or buy a new TVIP for another 180 days . You might even consider that as an alternate storage method between your GT visits if their TVIP process makes leaving it behind too difficult .

__________________
http://advrider.com/index.php?thread....207964/page-5 then scroll down to post #93

Howdy Sjoerd, thank you very much for the info, without it we'd be sunk.


I have a '06 Wee lined up to purchase but I won't be pulling the trigger until I get this idea figured out.


BTW "ULY" = Buell Ulysses


The fellow that rides that beast puts TKC80's on it and muscles that bike through stuff way worse that what I would try on the Wee, he has ridden it down the Baja already and has quite the skill riding off the pavement with it.


Thanks for the alternate route suggestions, I agree the more roads we can travel that are new and fun the better.


I'd prefer to ride a few nice roads through the states and cross over at Aqua Prieta (is that a reasonable border xing?) I plan it to take ~7 days from Prince George, so we don't have to head east through the deserts of Texas to get to El Paso. If we do cross at AP then we can ride the 17 south to the 16 and head east from there to just south of Chihuahua as I would not mind riding twisty 16 again as we'd be going the opposite way this time, unless you think the 17 south is not that good a road (would the 14 to the east be a better idea)?


Great to hear about the 23 south of Durango, score!


San Lorenzo is just east of where the 23 meets the 15D to the southwest of Durango (at the end of the 23).


To get to the coast once he hit the 15D what is a nicer twisty/scenic road to ride the 74 or the 76 to the south? The 74 will let us ride more distance along the coast though.


Yes I was in a bus ride on a twisty MTN road south east of PV when I took a trip up to the longest Zip line in the area a couple of years ago (~1km long at speed near 100km/hr it was awesome!), so I'd like to ride that road again.


In terms of storage options I'm not sure we'll be able to meet the 180 day TVIP limit to come back (in discussions with ride partners), so we may be heading to Mazatlan instead and taking the ferry to La Paz and storing the bikes there as there is no TVIP requirement, which gives us the freedom to come back whenever.


So when we do come back we would take the ferry back to the mainland, get the TVIP and head to Guatemala, cancelling the MX TVIP and getting a 90 day TVIP for Guatemala.


Would we have to get the Guatemala TVIP if we are coming back to MX in ~1 week? What are the risks? Or is it easier just to the thing and cancel when we leave for MX?


Is there any point getting insurance for Guatemala, is it required like Mexico?


We'd ride around Guatemala for about a week as we would take us about a week to get from Cabo to the Guatemala border and then bring the bikes back into MX for storage near one of the border towns you suggested so we are not on the TVIP clock. Then we'd fly back and ride them out of MX (would they check for a TVIP when we leave MX into Guatemala?) and explore Guatemala, Belize and perhaps the east coast of MX, then storing them in say Quintana Roo again and repeat.


That strategy would give us probably ~5 years of riding around MX, Guatemala, and Belize.


Is there anything required to ride around Belize for paperwork (ie: TVIP, insurance)?


Would we want to explore El Salvador and Honduras or are they just places to ride through really fast to get Nicaragua and further south?


Thanks again, with a little bit more info I think we will be able to make this happen!

I found your San Lorenzo, forget about it , it is a nondescript no- services ,village close to the tollroad and east of Estacion Ruiz There is NO entry onto the 15D toll road from mex 23

Sounds like the Ulyses rider has everything under control and he will have a great time if you can ride the route . None of it will be motocrossing in mudtrails. Unless you try riding the shortcut from Mex 17 to Mex 16 and it rains, as in desert thunderstorm.

Agua Prieta is a perfectly accepteble crossing . But if you are going south on 17 you will be zigzagging back west then east again to get to Chihuahua.
No matter how you look at it you will be going east to the equivalent of Juarez and that is why I could recommend going via El Paso. Taking 7days from PG to the border is really eating into your two weeks ( or was that 2 weeks IN MEXICO , additional to the transit to the border ?) I would have thought you guys would want to do a high speed run across the US , out of BC and Alberta and a cross the states on the fastest possible freeway route in about 3 or 4 days . Leave the scenic touring in US and CDN territory for later if Mexico is the objective.Decide on your priorities.


Going into GT with a bike there is no escaping the requirement to get a GT TVIP , but it is cheap and there is no big security bond involved.
Insurance for public liability is a legal requirement but it is really not enforced and most rural Guatemalans drive completely uninsured. The problem is if you get involved in any accident. It is for your own peace of mind and financial protection. Also being a gringo may make you an attractive target, perceived as potential big pay out for compensating a for local for a minor dent .With bikes it is unlikely , but in a car some jerk may actually provoke a small -ding contact and try to get you to pay out big to avoid getting the police involved , I have had that experience. If you are insured it may help you , but get the police involved anyway.If you know you are not responsible and can demonstrate you were not at fault the police may actually agree with you. If not the insurance will be worth it .
During my little event the paint in the small dent on the other car did not match the colour,( in fact contact on my car was with the headlight lens!) of MY car and the cop told the other guy to shake hands and buzz off. And the cop did not even ask for my insurance number !


For Belize there is an absolutely compulsory liability insurance required for each vehicle , it is very cheap and sold directly at the border, and they DO INSPECT along the roadside , random checks to see if yo have insurance. There is a 30 BZ$ exit tourist tax too.

Would you want to explore El Salvador and Honduras? Would YOU ? WHY would you NOT want to ?

OF course you would, or should want to !

__________________
http://advrider.com/index.php?thread....207964/page-5 then scroll down to post #93

Hey Sjoerd, thanks for the additional intel, just a few more tidbits requests.


I'm a bit confused about the 23 road south of Durango route option (which I'd like to take), according to Google Maps and my 2014 Guia Roji map book, it does connect to 15D just south of Ruiz (I used the town of San Lorenzo just as a locational reference), so if doesn't, then where does the 23 come out and connect for our travels to continue south?


I also noticed in your reply from yesterday you said "Yes that road Mex 23 from Durango south is now paved to Jesus Maria ( it's in your guidebook. with a hotel ; ) and BEYOND .

South of JM there was still about 20 km of unpaved two years ago going down the mountain , but that may be less or gone by now as construction was progressing actively from the south . In any case the entire road south to Mex 15 can easily be done in comfort on your KLR and 650 Vstrom".


Regarding 17 south of Aqua Prieta, I'm okay with the zig zagging and then heading east on 16 and the 17 as they both look twisty versus droning east on the Interstate to El Paso.


Have you ridden the 14 east of the 17, it looks more twisty than the 17, is the 14 all paved and if not doable on our bikes (ie: how much gravel and how is it)? In the Baja we road from San Felipe past Coco's Corner back to the MX 1 HWY south and that was okay for us.


When you say the "the shortcut from Mex 17 to Mex 16 and it rains, as in desert thunderstorm" are you talking about the 20 south from the 17/14 at Moctezuma, then south to Tepache, then El Limbo then Guisamopo then Santa Rosa at the 16? On Google Maps and in my 2014 Guia Roji map book it shows it connecting and paved the entire way, how is it to ride as I'd like to do that versus heading southwest to Hermosillo then east on the 16 to Santa Rosa.


To clarify, we only have the two weeks from BC to where we will park our bikes in Central America (probably Cabos - if we can't make the 180 day TVIP or Peurta Vallarta - if we can make it back in time).


We would rather take some nice roads through the US and spend a little less time in MX than droning on Interstates (especially with a KLR!!). This is a multi year plan so we are okay with the limited time in MX this trip if it means staying away from the Interstates etc. I've been riding the western US for the last 12 years (120K+ kms) and have many awesome road and routes highlighted on my mapping records to choose from. This is what we did on our Baja ride last year south and north through the States and it worked well.


Thanks to your advice we'll be getting 3rd party liability for MX and GT via the internet.


For Belize, besides the 3rd party insurance does one need a TVIP?


My comments regarding El Salvador and Honduras are solely based on hearsay, so I'm glad to hear your positive comments as you are doing what we want to do regarding riding the areas.


Mucho Gracious!

Hi folks, an update for you regarding TVIP "Free" zones along the south MX borders.


Both insurance companies said the only option is Quintana Roo north of Belize which does not work with our plan so, hmmmm......


We may be able to chance it in Chiapas given the checkpoints are so far north of the border....? This is what
Hi folks, an update for you regarding TVIP "Free" zones along the south MX borders.


Both said the only option is Quintana Roo north of Belize which does not work with our plan so, hmmmm......


We may be able to chance it via storage in Chiapas given the checkpoints are so far north of the border....? This is what Sjoerd has suggested we could consider.


I've pasted their replies below for your info:


1)


Then in southern Mexico, the latest we heard from Banjercito is that
the only state that is permit free is Quintana Roo.

Otherwise, all other states in Mexico will require you to carry a TIP.

Another thing we did hear a few years ago, is that you are not supposed to leave your vehicle in Mexico unattended, and leave the country. You are supposed to stay with your motorcycle.

Maybe that is something you would like to check with Banjercito or the Immigration office when you cross into Guatemala. You mentioned it would be in storage, so it might be fine, but I think this would be something that I recommend checking. I'm not sure if the rules have changed in that aspect.

If you need to contact Banjercito's office their main number is 011.52.555.328.2329

2)


Thanks for contacting Adventure Mexican Insurance. We’ve been spending most of the morning looking into an answer for your question. After speaking with 2 different Banjercito offices (they issue the vehicle permits), we have found that there is no free or border zone along the southern Mexican border like there is along the United States border. There are some areas where you can go as far as 80 kilometers without hitting a checkpoint, but technically you are required to have a vehicle permit anywhere within the state of Chiapas. If you were traveling through to Belize, the entire state of Quintana Roo is a free zone where no vehicle permits are necessary. But all other southern states in Mexico require you to have the TVIP for your bikes. If you would like to confirm for yourself and you speak spanish, here is the phone number for the Banjercito office in Chiapas: 011-52-963-631-4166