Seems as if I am just about the only one who prefers the Valeo over the Bosch starter-motor...

There is one major -fault- with the Valoe. It is a factory fault. They have -forgotten- to fill the "gearbox/planetary" with grease!
Omega 85 "shear sensation" is my primary option, and Omega 77 is my secondary option.

So if you begin with open the Valoe, and proceed with filling the gearing with top of the line grease - it will last. I have used mine for over 160 000km, short stops/rides.
All I have needed to do is to renew the brushes twice.


Current needed to activate startermotors:
Bosch 320A
Valeo 15A
A rough estimate at -10'C is that a 28Ah fully charged battery will allow for 4 attempts of less than one second to start using the Bosch startermotor... at -20'C it is about 2 attempts...

However, there are frequent report of broken Valoes, the magnes brake loose... this is a problem that does not happen with the Bosch startermotor.

Since weight is an issue in this overhaul/renovation, one should also look at the difference in pounds between theses startermotors.
The Valeo is far lighter than the Bosch, about 1/2-1/3 if I remember correctly.

__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert

Fitted to my bike and been very reliable - the converted nippondenso starter motor weighs in at almost half of the bosch, draws 80 amps instead of bosch 120 amp has glued in magnets on high torque planetry gears and was originally built for toyota trucksand has proven reliability as well as being suitable for higher compresion engines, spare availability should be descent being japanese truck internals - the starter motor is available from various sources in the uk.

Hi DC,

The Bosch is 120 amp I think... the Valeo must draw more than 15 amp.
I bought a Nippondenso Toyota starter for mine... fit and forget.
The ND starter draws 80amp and weighs about 3kg.

Cheers,
John

__________________
Nostradamus Ate My Hamster

Hi John,

Nop.

The Bosch startermotor is 320A.
Valeo is 15A.
All you need to do is to read the lable that is stuck to the startermotor.

If you still do not belive the data - just measure the reistance.

This data is also readilly available in the BMW (factory/original) Workshop Manual.

__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert

15A is 180W, there is no way you can turn an engine with 180W. 180W equals 0.25HP... It would have been possible to run the starter from your 15 Ah battery for one hour!

The Valeo is 700W (close to 60A) but that's when it's spinning, at startup it's far more. A heavy start can easily be 5 times the rating.

1/11/11...hee hee. It's all ones!!!

Spent today cleaning the engine with scotch brite pads and cleaner. WOW does that works well








Even shined the dip stick



Onto the questions. Tell me about the Right (looking forward) plug



And the Left plug



This is the brake Pedal.....seems awfully rough for BMW standards....is it aftermarket welded?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliBaba 15A is 180W, there is no way you can turn an engine with 180W. 180W equals 0.25HP... It would have been possible to run the starter from your 15 Ah battery for one hour!

I refer to official data.

Found this on the net - might be of some interest:
http://jhau.maliwi.de/mot/r-elec.html
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category_s/29.htm
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=3
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/startingprobs.htm
http://www.mekafrance.se/valeo-m-13.html
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/boschvaleostarter.htm
Start & Generator Specialisten: Startmotor / Startmotorer / Startmotorer;BLSHOP-1294675140837=13dq3ge1u0pgq

What I can see is a confusion here between torque (in kW) and electricity demand/consumption/current in A. The Bosch starter excerts 0.5kW in torque, and the Valeo excerts 1.2kW in torque. Bosch uses brute electric force (320A) to achive this, whilst Valeo uses revolutions (15A) to achive it.

It does not matter who is right and wrong here, what matters is that Shadowraven can make an informed and well based choice between these two options, Bosch and Valeo.

There are positive and negative sides of both startermotors. Lets focus on the important differences - what affects reliability on the road.



My experience is that Valeo is as good as Bosch - I know my experience differs with many on this point. The missing grease in the planetary gears may be a (or the) reason why so many Valeos fails; but how does this missing of grease cause the magnets to get unstuck and jam the startermotor??? Is heat the cause?

It is kind of peculiar, since I have used Valeo since 1992 (150-200 000 miles, salt, sleat, summer-winter) - and never had a magnet get unstuck, whilst a friend of mine got about 1000 miles and the his Valeo broke down (he -never- uses Valeos after that incident - he insists on always installing the bosch startermotors ever since) !...
All I ever have had to "repair" is to replace the brushes twice. Why do my Valoes not brake down when others does?... Could the missing lubrication of the planetary gearing be the cause/reason?...


At -25'C and below... the Bosch starter motor will not turn. The Valeo does and quite easily starts the engine. The lowest temp that I have personal experience of, with mineral oil (15W/40), is about -28'C.
So, as for me, the Bosch-startermotor is not an option, but that is merely due to the climate in which I drive.

__________________
Drive Safely,
Albert

That makes the Nippondenso unit the winner then

Cheers,
John

__________________
Nostradamus Ate My Hamster

According to your links the Valeo is 1.2Kw. If you can get 1.2kw by supplying 180w (12V * 15A) then you have a Perpetuum mobile.
The Valeo is called D6RA-15 but 15 has nothing to do with amperage.


I'm not sure if I'm confused...
Unlike other motors starter motors are often marked with "power@amp"-figures. Basically this means how much power the starter delivers at a given amperage.

If we compare:
Valeo: 1.2kw@275A
Bosch: 0.7kw@320A

This number indicates that the Valeo draws less current and produces more power then the Valeo. This is good! But it also tells us that 15A is not what we are talking about...
The numbers above doesn't show us exactly how this work because the real numbers are load-dependant. A Bosch-starter will be consume somewhere around 120A under normal conditions.

He has a Bosch and can probably use it. It might be worth to clean and lube it.


When it comes to reliability I would recommend the Bosch because I've killed two Valeos (in one week). Valeo with a house modified to keep the magnets in place will also be a good option but I don't see any reason to change it unless he want to start the engine in subzero °c or rise compression.


I would guess heat and age. Glue doesn't last forever.



My first one lasted 180kkm, the next one 30kkm, they both had the same age. When you use glue to attach something it can work for a long time, or not...

But as Redboots says Nippondenso is the best

I don't want to dilute this excellent build thread (thanks shadowraven!) even further but the Valeo on my '89 R100GS lasted for 20 years and 185,000 km before I decided to prep the bike for RTW. I replaced the Valeo with the Nippondenso from Rick at Motorrad Elektrik.

Last Fall I picked up my Dad's '84 R100RT. It has always been a tough bike to start because the starter motor doesn't turn the bike over very quickly (and for all I know may be taking a bunch of the electrons away from the spark plugs). I picked up the Valeo that has been sitting on a shelf for the last three years and plugged it into the bike, replacing the heavy Bosch. Bike starts like a charm now.

Just one data point...

__________________
Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
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www.ekke-audrey.ca