As I've been riding a R1200GS for the last 4 years (started with a normal GS), I can tell you that non of the BMW's are a great as BMW would like us to think - I've had my fair share of problems, but they are great bikes.

And looking at the big enduro bikes, non of them in genreal does not have one or two spots which couldn't be improved.

The only thing I was trying to say was that the Adv. is a monster, but if one isn't interested in really taking it off road then it will be a great bike....

Casper

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Hello Alan,

i've been giving it a big thought on the same way. But i've come to conclusion BMW made it optimum: to make more torque you need to a) reduce the compression ratio (which is pointless on twin - it'll be too "fuzzy" revving and "quirky" like an airhead, bad fuel consumption (not modern and smooth!) to 1200cc twin with big pistons) or b) make piston's smaller but up/down travel bigger - the cilinders would grow too wide for boxer c) make flywheel more massive for centrifugal forces - it would make it too lazy revving and engine stopping force would be bad. d) some other EFI/valves methods (variable spark timing over revs etc) that usually make poor fuel consumption/emissions and the system too complicated. Good comparision would be Moto Guzzi Quota with traditional "down-tuned" EFI Guzzi engine for enduro-usage giving very low torque, but the amount of torque in numbers isn't sufficent for 1100cc engine and it runs around less than 20MPG fuel efficency.

Also compare it with a fact do you know any other same 1000cc range enduro having that amount of torque (115Nm) on that low 5500rpms? The boxer's "180 degrees big bang theory" how the force is applyed from pistons to crankshaft has it's advantages in terms of low down torque, EVEN IF the piston's up/down travel is relatively small and flywheel is relatively lightweight... So the engine breathes free (freely revving and rapid throttle response) and has the optimum torque spreaded all over the rpm range, typically 90% of the torque is usable from 3K rpm on oilhead boxer twins which is very good spec i think giving it a ideal traction on offroad. See the around 200kg wet weighting HP2 ridden by Simo Kirssi taking 2nd overall place on European Cross Country series of offroad race compeating with 80kg lighter single cylinder machines(!) The only real technical advantage the bike has this HUGE traction on straights and low COG to cope in the fast curves.

Having ridden R1200GS about few hundred kilometres on different type of roads i can say it's much more smoother than any oilhead 1100/1150GS i've every tryed. I personally think it's smoothness that makes people think there's no low-down torque, but there acctually is.

I'm not a salesman of bmw, rather big boxer enthusiast and 115Nm@5500 and 85 backwheel horsepower is more than sufficent. Not many similar bikes have Nm units in numbers more than HPs, so it really is torque oriented machine anyway.

Oh... And HPNs never go cheap, they are niche products afterall. Seen just one on eBay around 20 000EURos.

[This message has been edited by Margus (edited 19 November 2005).]

Are those panniers RTW quallity? I hope they are up to the standard Touratech quality and that they havn't been 'plasticized' like BMW likes to do... The mounts seem to be standard Zega mounts. Anyone?

I reckon this is a total waste of money and represents design driven as much by fahion as real practicality and versatility. Primarily it is too heavy and poorly suspended for serious off-roading. Check out Highland motorcycles who seem the only manufacturer concerned with building a big trailie with good suspension and reasonable weight. Of course it will be a fine road bike but then you are spoilt for choice by the Japanese if that's what you're after.

He you all BM freaks,

Last december I bought a GSA 1200 to replace my old GS 100 ... will be delivered end march, and i will have it in Africa end this year ... hope this will be as reliable as my good old 100GS ... 140.000 km without majort problems (same clutch !)
remember when BMW came in the 80's with the GS 80/100 everybody was shouting that this was a much to heavy bike for offroad ...
I was enjoying a standard GS1200 on a Taiwan tour dec 2004, in parallel with a GS1150 ... what a diff between both! If its only half this +diff between GS and GSA, that be great ...
About GSA paniers, I was told that the Touratech will be available shortly , may be a better choice than originals as those are quite expensive ...
Do anyone have infos about this ?
norbert

I have a Harley St. Glide now, love the bike, but I am going through midlife crisis and want to do some Adventure biking. Have being riding for 30 years...
At first I was going to buy a GS 1200 ADV next few weeks, but now I have heard so much how this bike is so heavy for offloading etc, and other issues that I am thinking about Yamaha Tenere or Triumph Adventure. Love the looks of GSA most.
Could you guys give me some input, specially the guys that have the GSA!
Would you buy another or would you consider Yamaha and Triumph.
Thanks in advance!!

Hi,
Take a look at Suzuki DL 650 V-strom. Hardly will find any negative issues. Good bike - cheap, reliable and only 190 kg.
Regards!

Coming from a 1550cc bike, I know that I can't have anything smaller than 1200cc! So I have to pick one of the big ones! Just not sure who??

[Goderzi,

You hit the nail straight on the head, also the range is great. 400 km with one tank are easily done.

Cheers

RM

Moulin,
You ask about the 1200GSA particularly, and there is some good feedback in this thread but a lot of it is a few years old. The link below brings up a UK webpage about that bike, and a few others in the Beemer range.

[url=http://www.ukgser.com/home/]UKGSer

http://www.ukgser.com/home/

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Dave

They are all the same weight class around 250kg with fuel. The BMW just have a larger tank.

Nothing wrong with the bike at all, just like with everything it's a handfull off road. I had one for 3 years and after > 60.000km I can say that it's great on tarmac and gravel, just does it, anything more technical and you can end up hating it (depending on how skilled your are, and how strong).

I've lifted it more than a few times fully loaded up (around 300kg), and it's not something I enjoy, but people seeing one doing it are awestruck

Something lighter with around 300km range (below 100km/h) look at the BMW F800, Triumph Tiger 800, etc. Or just the BWM R1200GS which is ~30kg lighter than the Adv. and a better offroad bike.

I'll hopefully be trading my ADV in shortly, probably for an F800GS.

Casper

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[QUOTE=moulin6801;365146]I have a Harley St. Glide now, love the bike, but I am going through midlife crisis and want to do some Adventure biking. Have being riding for 30 years...
At first I was going to buy a GS 1200 ADV next few weeks, but now I have heard so much how this bike is so heavy for offloading etc, and other issues that I am thinking about Yamaha Tenere or Triumph Adventure. Love the looks of GSA most.
Could you guys give me some input, specially the guys that have the GSA!
Would you buy another or would you consider Yamaha and Triumph.
Thanks in advance!![/QUOTE

I chose the GSA because of the large gas tank and after adding the spoke wheels and engine protection, I'd be over the price of the GSA. I love no having to stop every other day to fill up whpile commuting to work or worry about running out of gas on a desolate off road trip. The 1200GS or Adventure model will be able to go on just about any gnarly dirt road.

My wife is starting to ride with me more and more. I'm 6'7" and she is 5'4" She would be the pillion, as she has no interest in being in the drivers seat. I have a Kawasaki 650, which is fine for short trips but 2 up, it's not that comfortable after a while. I'm looking at the 1200 GS as an option for us, for the long trips we want to start taking.

Compared to the Tenera or Triumph 1200 what thinnest thou about these bikes for 2 up

Hi Jim,

The 1200 Adventure or the 1200 GS make great two-up bikes. I found the 1150 Adventure a bit more accommodating for my 6'4" but I was sitting quite far back on the bench seat, not leaving very much room for my wife. The two piece seat on the 1200 is much better for the passenger. I noticed that when I went from a 1200GS to the 1200 Adventure that the passenger seat on the GS is much nicer. When you see profile pictures of the two bikes you can see that the Adventure front and rear seats are level with each other. I first thought that this was because the driver's seat is much higher. While it is a bit higher than the GS the bigger difference is that the passenger seat has been cut down. It might be a good idea to have your wife try both. If you've got your heart set on the GSA you could consider a custom passenger seat or trade with someone on a regular GS.

For the best all around bike I would go with the GS but for either long distance touring or riding to the back of beyond the GSA is better.

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Ekke Kok

'84 R100RT 141,000 km (Dad's!)
'89 R100GS 250,000 km (and ready for another continent)
'07 R1200GS Adventure 100,000 km (just finished Circumnavigating Asia)
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www.ekke-audrey.ca