We didn't reinforce our rear subframe and we were fine, but we did not do so much off-road nd I don't think were as heavily loaded as Margus is (although we were at 450kg, fulltank, luggage and two travellers).

However, if you plan to and don't mind the hassle of removing the sub-frame, I think it worth it for peace of mind. A lot less hassle now to reinforce than fix in the middle of a lost track somewhere!!

Luggage? If the Jesse's are too small, I would recommend Project VND panniers. Huge on inside yet tidy on outside. Volvo sturdniess, with Honda practicality!

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Thanks guys , great responses and I even printed the pictures to copy the welded support, to me better safe than sorry so doing it prior need seems the right way to do it and as far as the tires I did use on some other bikes to carry them in the front but I saw a picture somewhere of a guy with two tires set on the back looks like an easy setting but I do agree that carrying them foward seems better. Hey Margus what kind of luggage do you have on yours , look like custom made??

Thanks again

I meant to say this in my post, but forgot. Those are Project VNDs, like the ones I had on my GS (still have mine even though the GS was mashed by a car: can't bring myself to sell them!!!). The last three pictures in the picture gallery are me and mine!

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Nice luggages , how much do they go for ??

Price varies depending what you need and how much work there is needed (fully handmade), but should be around 1200-1300USD-ish if I remember correctly by the time I left (5 months ago), not sure what the UK pound-to-US-dollar state currently is (been on the road for too long now and lost completely the sense of currencies in the economic downfall!!! )

If you go for Verns get the lid strap supports as well from him - so you can fix some stuff on the panniers (i.e. I fix tripod on one and water bottle on another, proven very practical for me at least).

Ride safe, Margus

Not a bad price at all for a custom made product , when compared to others they do look much better , I will test my bike loaded with my actual jesse bag but if not big enough I will seriously consider them.

Those are Vern WorldBeater panniers as Warthog (Nick) said. Vern makes them in various sizes and they are very sturdy, I reckon among the sturdiest panniers you can find. Especially the frames that have NO weldings at all and the stainless steel is turned by considering very close metal properties - only on critical angles (= considerably less prone to crack compared to welded-frames), no over- or underturns, that makes metal whether weaker (overturn angle, metal starts to crack) or just unefficent (underturn angle - more room and more weight). Using material properties to its max is something that many pannier makers don't consider or haven't done a deeper research on it.

Another thing I really love about thos panniers is the "crashability". The front "falcon-point" wall is exacly tuned to "slide" rather than "hook" with the ground that rectangular (ZEGA, Metal Mule, etc) do the worst. After hard highspeed soft-ground crash with rectangular panniers you end up a pannier shape resembling number "8" (the front 90-deg angle acts as a falcon-point, twisting all the pannier with the excessive weight of all the bike on it). As you see on the pics Vern have done multiple low-angle turns to "smoothen" out the falcon point. Jesses are also well-optimized for crashing. I've met many travellers on the road who just admire the wall-design on Verns - mostly those who've experienced exacly the "8-twist" effect on their alu panniers after a harder fall (rectangular alu panniers are the most common among travellers).

Some pics of Verns on my bike, they are one of the biggest ones he makes, around 50 liters and other around 45 or a bit more (exhaust cut-out side pannier), and with those huge panniers, the width of the bike is less than a meter, 98cm to precise! They stick very close to the bike, which also means less stress and reduced torque-reaction for the support frames:

If interested contact Vern through his web-page. He makes them in various sizes and the frames or he can build ground-up if you have any special needs.


PS. Got a PM about tires. Tires I use are Heidenau K60, the best-bang-for-the-buck 50/50 tire I know of that fit to GS (they are 1-size thinner, but GS spokeless rims allow +/-1 size width variation of tires, so it's still within factory spec). Front lasts around 30Kkm, rear depends highly on your riding style, but mine normally does around 18-25Kkm. Heidi K60s are similar purpose tire as Conti TKC80, but costs almost half less and last longer. So a worthy alternative to TKC80. Ironically I was one of the first who discovered them and spread the word and they've grown so popular now among GS users in Europe and South-Africa (as far as I know Heidenaus are still not available in Americas, who ever starts to import them in US or Canada will become rich quickly ), so they seem to be the tire many have waited for in GS tubless size, at affordible price level.