The cynic in me has wondered for some time how of the drive towards having essentially trivial maintenance tasks done by a dealer is part of an attempt to just give them something to do and keep them in business. All manufacturers must face the same issue, that they're making cars (mainly) and bikes more reliable, with less parts needing periodic attention (when was the last time you greased your propshaft ) so there's less need of a semi skilled dealer workforce making up for design deficiencies.

Maybe if Touring Ted picks up on this thread he could give us some inside info on what typical day in his workshop consists of but, accident repairs notwithstanding, I wonder how much of the routine stuff could be (almost) eliminated if BMW set their mind to it when their designers start on the next generation of cars and bikes. I suspect there's a fine line to be trod between making vehicles that don't need dealer attention (during the warranty period anyway) and giving them so much to do that a reputation for unreliability means no one buys them in the first place.

A passing acquaintance of mine bought one of these new fangled 650DL about a year ago and, in negotiating with the Suzuki dealer, it was agreed that they could both ignore the intermediate "service" and the dealer would stamp up the service record book twice when the bike came in for the "more-normal" service interval; thereby, the dealer got his sale of a new bike and the customer got a bike that could go out on a tour of, say, Europe, without searching for a dealership along the way.


There is plenty of "street-talk" among owners of newish BMWs that the original reputation for reliability has been swopped for a modern reputation for good warranty cover - yes, yes, this is all very well if the dealership is close at hand and is up to the task!
Just a few years ago, the 1200GS was being "bashed together" in the Berlin factory by "pretty-much-untrained-immigrant-labour" (gastarbeiten) - such as wheel bearings inserted with a hammer; on a % basis this works OK most of the time (at least during the warranty period).
Any issues that arise under warranty can be sorted out by the dealers, which gives them work and an ongoing involvement with the marque.

Some years ago there was press speculation that future cars would not be designed with a bonnet (that's a hood for those using USA English) that opens; there would be a small hatch type door for checking oil and coolant levels and the engine would be sealed-for-life, even down to those seals that can be found on computers; "warranty void if opened".

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Dave

They hit the limit with that one too. No bonnet puts off the buyers. Instead you open the bonnet to find a grey plastic sheet with just the washer bottle lid peeping out.

Andy

"The Wee-strom is fine with 5000 mile oil changes."

Mine isn't - gets noisier around the 3000 mile point, much improved after an oil change. Oil was knackered when it came out too.

I'll be doing mine as per the maintenance schedule thanks. Filter every 3rd change, as per maintenance schedule. Not sure why some dealers think they know better than the guys that designed, built and tested the bloody things.

13 years in the automotive industry and we never let a draughty set a service interval. Marketing shout higher higher, aftermarket sales lower lower. The draughtys get left back in their booths playing cad.

Andy

I might set folks off with my take on this thread, but here it is.

I was initially surprised that the issue of having someone else do something to your bike was seen as so 'bad'. The HUBB itself is based on other people doing stuff that others can read about and it seems to be an OK thing.

Maybe the dealer showed the folks how to maintain their chain for the next time. Maybe the mechanic was working to save up to take her own trip and having customers is appreciated. Maybe the dealer was a friend of the motorcycle owner. Maybe the owner had tried to adjust the chain herself and just couldn't get it done right. I realize that I haven't read the other forum where the original post was located so some of this may have been answered. But, I still don't get why its OK to suggest what someone else is doing is cause for a 'can you believe it' type moment. Motorcyclists come in all styles.

Some, looking at the ad on the HUBB don't even adjust their chains (Scottoiler, apparently, works well)

Even Ewan and Charlie who've taken lots of heat have, served to expose lots of others into the world wide motorcycle travel arena.

My experience with HUBB folks over the past 7 years suggests most folks take a 'whatever, as long as you're out there' approach. Which I think is great!

Chain adjustment is one of those constant battles between the mechano-fiddlers and the riders. Modern chains and the things that come on Enfields and need boiling up in whale tallow on a Primus stove every 37 yards are entirely different beasts. Likewise, an oiler on a chain that would live without one is somewhere between a comfort blanket to control the voices in the fiddlers head and a source of grinding paste that causes more wear and allows more fiddling. We all find our own balance on that one. Some even take their medicine in huge doses but less frequently with shaft drive.

The E&C debate has been done to death. Lots of interest, lots of second hand R1200GS's about, most of the new recruits clogged up a few "extreme-adventure" rallies for a few years and have now gone back to treating their GS just like they did the Sportsbike before. If they enjoy it, fair enough.

What I think caused the shock (if you can call it that) is that chain adjustment would typically be viewed alongside filling up with petrol and putting air in the tyres. You would have to wonder how anyone who couldn't do this themselves would get more than a few hundred miles from home. Choosing to let a dealer touch a bike is also alien to many here. No one cares more about your bike than you do. Dealers use air tools and no grease and leave things that then can't be undone at the roadside. They install "upgrades" to the fuelling without telling you and make the bike run rough at altitude. They either want to replace additional things they spot like worn brake pads there and then or don't tell you where as the owner would order some and see if they need fitting in a week or two. Above all, dealers cost more. We should maybe thank the people who will pay £50 to get their chain adjusted as they are keeping the mechanics employed until we need them. Unfortunately I suspect their lack of knowledge will lead the dealer to employ chain adjusters who'll be useless when we need a gearbox rebuilt.

Personally I'm currently embracing the throw away culture. Buy a new bike, ride the **** off it, do just enough serving at home to keep it alive until the MOT is due then trade it back to a dealer for another. If it makes it there on trade in day it's mission accomplished. My extra depreciation is less than I'd have paid in dealer service charges. When the ***s stamp up the service book and sell it on to someone who can't afford new it's the dealer doing the dirty on people and if they do believe a dealers salesman that's for them to sort. I'll hand it over with photographs and receipts for every oil and filter change, way better than you'd get from their own mechanics.

Andy