Nah - privately owned and expensed.

Agree with all your points in your posts, but adjusting a chain ain't in the same ballpark as welding a frame or rebuilding a wheel (neither of which are in my skill set)!

The business models of BMW & Triumph (and the associated maintenance hassles) are why I ride a V-strom and Tenere.....

I just picked up a 2010 KLR650. The headlight beam is too high so I checked the manual to see which way was up with the adjusters. Manual says "let the dealer do it"

Sheesh!

Yeah, but did ya take it to the dealer??

Nope. Dealers here know less than anyone.

Plus I just bought a GSA so the KLR is gathering dust!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

The dealer de-skilling is a bit of an advantage to us if they change the designs to match. If their YTS McDonalds reject can get the oil out without burning himself or destroying either your bike or the workshop, doing the same in a layby isn't going to be impossible. If they seal the engine and we work out they've done it (they'll hide behind inspecting filters and other non-jobs) we can ignore the service intervals so long as we are prepared to walk away from the warranty.

The risk is rubbish like having the "safety" light disable the ignition every 2500 miles unless a dealer is called in to inspect and reset it. None have dared do this yet. Their attempts at special tools go back to the Victorians and always fail in the end. If they can make an 69/93rds bolt, we can make an 18.8 mm socket. Same goes for electronics, some teenager will break the code and sell you a phone app to reset the light.

Suzuki BTW are getting lower in my opinion. The Wee-strom is fine with 5000 mile oil changes. The threat of a cancelled warranty if I don't let their grease monkey inspect my air filter (how do you do that BTW, open the lid and should "oi, boss, is this it?") every 3500 miles drives me towards Moto Guzzi who don't seem to care less so long as someone drops the oil once a year. Suzuki policy is to double the dealer visits and cost by taking the tank off at 4000 to inspect the air filter then again at 7500 to change the plugs. I changed both at 5000 and will again at 15000. Putting new oil in a dirty filter is stupid. Our local dealer seems to be able to change the plugs with the tank still on according to the paint marks on peoples bolts, stamps in their service books and £400 invoices. I bet he uses X-ray vision to inspect the air filters too. That or the invoices just buy more warranty?

Andy

The cynic in me has wondered for some time how of the drive towards having essentially trivial maintenance tasks done by a dealer is part of an attempt to just give them something to do and keep them in business. All manufacturers must face the same issue, that they're making cars (mainly) and bikes more reliable, with less parts needing periodic attention (when was the last time you greased your propshaft ) so there's less need of a semi skilled dealer workforce making up for design deficiencies.

Maybe if Touring Ted picks up on this thread he could give us some inside info on what typical day in his workshop consists of but, accident repairs notwithstanding, I wonder how much of the routine stuff could be (almost) eliminated if BMW set their mind to it when their designers start on the next generation of cars and bikes. I suspect there's a fine line to be trod between making vehicles that don't need dealer attention (during the warranty period anyway) and giving them so much to do that a reputation for unreliability means no one buys them in the first place.

A passing acquaintance of mine bought one of these new fangled 650DL about a year ago and, in negotiating with the Suzuki dealer, it was agreed that they could both ignore the intermediate "service" and the dealer would stamp up the service record book twice when the bike came in for the "more-normal" service interval; thereby, the dealer got his sale of a new bike and the customer got a bike that could go out on a tour of, say, Europe, without searching for a dealership along the way.


There is plenty of "street-talk" among owners of newish BMWs that the original reputation for reliability has been swopped for a modern reputation for good warranty cover - yes, yes, this is all very well if the dealership is close at hand and is up to the task!
Just a few years ago, the 1200GS was being "bashed together" in the Berlin factory by "pretty-much-untrained-immigrant-labour" (gastarbeiten) - such as wheel bearings inserted with a hammer; on a % basis this works OK most of the time (at least during the warranty period).
Any issues that arise under warranty can be sorted out by the dealers, which gives them work and an ongoing involvement with the marque.

Some years ago there was press speculation that future cars would not be designed with a bonnet (that's a hood for those using USA English) that opens; there would be a small hatch type door for checking oil and coolant levels and the engine would be sealed-for-life, even down to those seals that can be found on computers; "warranty void if opened".

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Dave

It wouldn't happen with a KTM; the manual even tells you how to change the light bulbs.

Of course, the solution is:-
"We have ridding from London to Everest Base Camp so far and with the Scottoiler on our F800GS we have not even adjusted the chain once. Can't fault the design and reliability. You can almost forget you have a chain on the bike. Through all the dirt, dust, mud and sand the Scottoiler has performed faultlessly"
Kevin Sanders – Co-Founder Globebusters
(taken straight out of the HUBB link -- http://www.scottoiler.com/uk/adventu...nlimited+Forum )

Isn't this the same guy who used to ride a shafty 1200GS?????

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Dave

I agree, but the fact that you're able to make the distinction shows that you've traveled at least part of the way along the greasy fingernails highway. Have you noticed any reduction in your skill set over the years as replacement bikes have needed less doing to them? Nobody sets two stroke timing with a dial gauge any more (well I do but that's another matter) but it was almost a daily ritual years ago. Chain adjusting is just another step on that journey.

My wife doesn't ride but she does drive and has zero knowledge of car mechanics - to the point where she doesn't know where the bonnet release catch is. She doesn't need to as BMW have engineered out the need for her to lift the bonnet. Nothing has gone wrong in two cars over five years and the service intervals are a couple of hours in the dealers' every two years. I could easily see her taking the car to a dealer to fill the windscreen washer fluid (were I not around to do it) - and complaining about how hard it is to do.

Bikes are not quite at that stage yet but they need a lot less hands on intervention than they did and it's a trend that's only going to continue - even the Italians have had to raise their game! You're meant to enjoy them rather than enjoy repairing them.