Hi,

I hope this is the right location to post this, if not, let me know or move it!

We are a soon to be family of four and plan to spend ~9 month in South America overlanding. We are trying to figure out what the ideal vehicle would be. We were looking a Sprinter Van type vehicles, pick ups with a cabin and possibly some slightly bigger truck type vehicle. What we are looking for is:

• 4x4 capability to go off road but nothing super serious going throught the most difficult tracks etc.
• sit and sleep 4 (2 adults one being 200cm in height and 2 small(ish) children aged 1 and 3)
• working at low (sub zero) temperatures (not Russia in winter but Andes or Norway in spring)
• ability to cook and sit indoors when it is raining
• not super expensive (i.e. 100.000 USD high end vehicles) but we won't mind spending 5k more if its worth it
• toilet in some shape or form would be nice

We did a trip when we had no children with a Toyota Landcruiser and a roof top tent (which got stolen in Kazakhstan but well) and liked it a lot but would prefer something slightly more "comfortable" with the kids.

Thanks to all of you for advice!

Welcome to HU, and yes this is the right spot! Be sure to Subscribe to this thread so you get a notice when there's a reply. See thread Tools above.

Question:
Are you planning on buying this in South America, or buying it at home and shipping both ways? That's VERY expensive - research this FIRST!
Then, just a thought, buy it there, and availability will determine what you get! A bit of a shot in the dark, but some research withe the HU Communities will stand you in good stead, and of course anyone here that has done South America on 4 wheels might have some ideas.
Best of luck!

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Let me start off with a fairly important note and that being that I have no serious 4-wheel overland experience.

My experience is driving across Europe in a van (all paved roads so no great challenge) and getting the same van stuck in sand on a remoted Estonian forest trail!

But I have looked at 4 wheels as the way to go for trips now as I have two kids and while my girlfriend likes bikes, she prefers only shorter trips. And I have ridden in South America.

My van is a FWD 2.0TD Transit from 2000!

It is L1H1, so about the smallest proper van size you can get. I bought it as a trip van and workhorse for carting myself and the kids (and dogs up until recently) around the country.

For the latter, I moved the rear seats back so the the rear area is now smaller and the passenger leg space larger. I also build a "folding" bed of sorts that I can open out and lay over the rear seats once they've been folded down. There is also a small fold out table. That is the extent of my creativity at present.

I'd like something bigger so I have also looked at the likes of the Merc Sprinter and VW Crafter. They are indeed big.

They are also expensive.

The reality is I can't stretch to one of those, at least not right now. This forces me to make some considerations.

So finally the part that relates to you:

If someone magicked up flights to Argentina for my kids, girlfriend, van and myself, I would feel confident in doing 95% of the things and reaching 95% of the destinations I did two-up on my R1150GS 14 years ago. This is partly because I suck at off-road riding on a heavy bike and a van like that with decent tyres is not entirely useless. It is limiting to a point but not useless.

OK, with that out of the way, the next bit is to say that my van is smaller than I'd like but, as I explained, I can't afford something 17 times more expensive. My solution?

A roof tent. As yet not bought but it's going to be an Autohome Columbus or Maggiolina. In my case, the large, but for your kids' ages, the medium would also work.

So you can get a smaller van and fit one of those and still have all your spatial needs addressed.

I say van, rather than Land Cruiser or pick up, as I personally enjoy the space of the the former.

So if we entertain both smaller and longer van chassis but agree that 4WD is preferrable, then have a look at the 4x4 Sprinter, the VW Transporter 4Motion or Syncro, the Toyota Hiace and I think there is a 4WD Iveco out there too. (The Daily?)

Note that certainly the Syncro VWs have a viscous coupling as a means of engaging AWD; the same system as some Subarus, IINM.

I won't bore you with my understanding of how it works but suffice to say that if not treated correctly (eg towing a Syncro by lifting the front wheels into a cradle and letting the rears stay on the road) then the VC will be toast and they are not cheap. So be sure to check that out. How is a question for the gods of Google.

Finally, you know when an elastic band is old and snaps at the first exertion? Well, that sums up my lower back. In other words, if there is one thing I would change about my Transit, it would be head room. There's a lot to be said for being able to stand upright in your van. At 2m tall one of you will really appreciate that, even when sitting down!

So a decent example of a reasonably sized H2 van with 4WD capability: €15-20K?
A decent hard-cased roof tent: €3000
A roof rack (mine is from Rhino Racks): €200
Some customising of the inside for seating, cooking and storage: €2-3K? (if you get decent stuff. <€1000 if you build yourself and use timber)

Reasonable budget: €20-25K.

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Another possibility is having a pop-top installed on a regular, low-roofed van, whether 4x4, AWD, or 2wd. There are a couple of companies here in the US which do this, and an upper convertible bed is usually included but can be left out if desired. You don't need the headroom when you're driving; you need it when you're stopped, maybe cooking dinner, setting up bedding, or searching madly for stuff you're sure you packed...somewhere.

One reason I won't be getting a Sprinter-equivalent (aside from the astronomical price); they don't fit in a standard garage with a 7 foot height door. Sadly, neither will a full-sized van with a pop-top added. Can't use commercial parking garages or restaurant drive-throughs either. A mini-van with pop-top will fit, but is limited in other ways, especially for family camping. All of this might apply to whatever is available in Europe, or not.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Hi,

thanks for all your comments and ideas, very helpful!

I know shipping is very expensive and we will check out what is available in South America. The thing is, that we would probably continue using the vehicle later on in Europe (possibly going towards Asia again). Probably money-wise still not the best idea but might save us the trouble of buying and selling cars. I do understand the point about height (always a disadvantage), would you think it matters a lot in South America? especially if we are willing to park it in some kind of secure outdoor parking/hotel parking and take taxi/public transport to explore a larger or denser city?

We too think that sprinters while being nice are kind of expensive for what you get, that's why we were looking more towards pickup with cabin (rare in Europe but available, we're from Germany). Do you think this would be sturdy enough for this kind of trip? I read that especially with European pickups you are usually pretty close to the maximum weight, which usually isn't that good an idea for the durability of the car. And while I don't mind doing some repairs on the way, fixing a broken frame or broken cabin wouldn't be my favorite...

Again thanks to all of you!

The following is purely my personal preference may not align with yours, but here goes:

I would always take a van over a pickup with a cabin on top. I think the headroom will be even more restrictive than in a van, you can't access the living quarters through the vehicle, passengers at the back will be more cramped too.

And their profile would not inspire confidence in uneven terrain or in the Patagonian crosswinds.

And using my "back of the hand" calculator, I would not be surprised in the slightest that a decent pick-up, plus the cost of an entire, fully equipped cabin would cost as much if not more than a commercial van that is converted.

Converting an internal space can be done at high cost, but also on a budget. Building an entire shell, and then equipping it is always going to be quite expensive.

4x4 vans include the Sprinter, Crafter, Transit and Transporter. I'd look at the last two for affordable prices, and particular the Transporter in Germany.

But, as I said, that's just me...

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Hi Warthog,

thanks for your thoughts, very much appreciated. We are not decided yet, so the more opinions and interesting points we gather the better!

Financially I would say a used cabin plus pick-up combination would be cheaper than a similar converted van looking at offers in the German market (we would rather not buy something brand new).

I am really not sure whether doing the internal conversion myself. On the one hand it sounds like fun, learning something and having the ability to customize where needed, on the other hand it sounds like a lot of work I could be spending with my family or earning money (we both have relatively demanding jobs plus a small flat in Berlins inner city, so no yard around the corner where we could build something).

Would you think that spare part availability is an issue with some of the vans? sprinters seem to be super expensive but also seem to have a relatively reliable network around South America and the world.

Thanks again!

Something sold in South America is good to have - you need access to parts and some countries do not allow import of spares. It could be shipped from Europe, but it's a good idea to avoid something which has no concessionaire network.

Some countries have rules about taking vehicles out of the country which may create challenges.

Shipping anything taller (and/or wider) than you can get into a standard container is indeed going to be expensive. It may still be a good decision though if you want to have the vehicle ready to go when it arrives, rather than having to spend time on modifications on a locally bought vehicle.

We've done most of our travel in a straightforward 4x4 (with a bed inside), and don't like RTTs, however you could look at a RTT as an option.

It's not an easy decision, however there are relatively few places you cannot reach in a van in South America, unlike Africa for example.

The points I've made are going to be biased because my own choice has been made: I love van conversions and I love the fact that externally, they can look like exactly that: a plain old van, but inside they are a home on the go.

If a pickup conversion ticks a sufficient number of your boxes, then you should consider them as a viable option.

As for building the interior yourself: it really depends on how deep you want to go.

My conversion involved: taking up the floor to paint the metal with a thick coat of Hammerite, getting rear seat brackets re-welded so that the seat could sit in mid-position, replacing the internal panels with cut plywood, fixing a horizontal wooden ledge along the midline as a bed support and then building a bed frame in 3 sections.

I built it so that the two main halves slot into one another when stored and the whole bed acts as a storage shelve for our gear.

Finally, I added a folding table to one of the side panels in the passenger area. That ended up being used to change diapers more than anything else.

The point is that gives me the van I need and it was easy enough to do myself, but I had a garden to work in.

A roof tent and some storage compartments under the bed frame in the rear are all I need to build myself and ideally replacing the front twin passenger seat with a single passenger seat so that I can move freely between drivers chair and the rear without any undignified acrobatics.

For me that is enough and is a conversion that costs in the hundreds, not thousands (if you don't count the roof tent).

With recovery boards, and somewhat knobbly tyres, I thank that van would get me most places my driving could handle and can do 6.5l/100km all day if I stick to 90km/h.

So it all depends on how comprehensive a build you need. Above was my level while some people need the full 4x4 Sprinter Hymer at €60,000!

Whatever you decide, keep us posted: always nice to follow a build. And watch YouTube videos for inspiration and ideas: it's amazing what some people create.

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

We've travelled in a G Wagen and with others in 4x4's with roof top tents. We now have a mwb 4x4 Sprinter.

I'd never go back to the G Wagen (an excellent vehicle) or anything like it Anything other than a van has too many disadvantages.

Want to park up in a layby or an urban car park? In a roof top tent! No chance. So you either need to find a cheap hotel or sleep in a tiny space. Blowing a gale. You won't get any sleep.

If you do it right a van conversion just blends into the back ground. Doesnt attract unwanted attention. It's more secure.

If you don't want to pay the 4x4 premium a 2wd van and some decent tyres will do just fine.

For a family of 4 I'd be looking at Sprinter mwb/Crafter size as a minimum. Having said that a lwb Sprinter is big and will limit your mobility.