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XT600 rear brake bleeding: neverending flow of bubbles????? XT600 rear brake bleeding: neverending flow of bubbles?????
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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 21 Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estebangc View Post
Your sequence, to try is as well:
1) Push pedal (and hold it, I assume)
2) Loosen bleeder
3) Very quickly tighten it
4) Release pedal... and again 1) and so on.

Is that right? Reservoir cap always out, since we'll be refilling, I assume.

Question: no syringes at all? Because stupide me I forgot to control fluid level and let lots of air to get in the 1st time!
Yeb, thats how I do it aswell. Between step 3 and 4, I usually pump the pedal a few times, before i go to no. 1. Not sure if it makes a real difference, but thats my thing
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Old 22 Oct 2011
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yes jens it does help, it builds pressue in the system. i didnt realize that i didnt mention it as i ment to
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  #3  
Old 22 Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eskildsen View Post
Yeb, thats how I do it aswell. Between step 3 and 4, I usually pump the pedal a few times, before i go to no. 1. Not sure if it makes a real difference, but thats my thing
Nope your dead right there Jens i forgot to mention that, it does help to build up the pressure.

Mezo.
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Old 24 Oct 2011
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Thanks to all. I will try the perfectionned procedure with more pumping!

My girlfriend could not handle the 215kgs (more than 4 times her weight!) turning around cones and dropped the CBF a couple of times on Friday night already, so postponed the course and I (we) cheated the XT and went for a short trip with me riding gf as a pillion.

Conclusion: sorry, but I still love much more the XT thumping and will get back to her today again! No rush, so probably rotor change inmediately.
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Old 24 Oct 2011
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If the rotor is worn it makes sense to renew it at the same time as the pads then they bed in together rather than bedding the pads to the old disc making them less efficient when you put a new rotor on. Make sure the pads and disc are clean, not contaminated with fluid or oil.
Sometimes it helps to keep the system pressurised overnight, wedge the peddle down or tie the lever back,
Try altering the routing of the flexible pipe whilst you're bleeding the system, if it loops up tie it so it loops down or vice versa.
Be very careful opening the bleed screw whilst the system is under pressure, you could get brake fluid spraying in your face/eyes.
Good luck (a friend has renovated his RD 500 but can't get a good back brake, even having the calliper off and in different positions)
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Old 2 Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by oothef View Post
If the rotor is worn it makes sense to renew it at the same time
New rear brake disc/rotor installed with (almost) new pads!(I tried a moment the pads with the old disc and they got a little worn with the grooves/lines in the old rotor, reason to follow the "change all" advice).

But before I keep on with your wise (clumsy-proof) advice about the bleeding…

With the bike stopped on the center stand, I pushed the wheel for a couple of turns… and the brakes pads are touching/chafing the disc (the previous brake pads were at the end also touching it all the time, so it got worn…). "What keeps them separated?", I thought. Looked around and pulled out the sort of tabs of the "springs" (see photo) that support the brake pads, in case they should be pushing out the pads when not braking (those tiny things cost 32€ new in Yamaha France!). They pull more now, but the pads are still touching.

It is very hard to push the piston back (probably normal), so I put WD40 around the rubber joint, since I was told so once. Same scratching. I don’t have those shims (what is that?) they mention in the workshop manual, nor have I cooper grease, could that be, do they stick the pads to the caliper??? I am reading 2'5 manuals (in German way toooo hard) and I'm still lost with those details. I understand the basics of the way the brake works, but not more than that, I guess.

What is wrong / what am I doing wrong? Or am I just too impatient and once properly bled it won’t touch (does it make sort of a vacuum with the piston to pull it out; how do you stick the pads then to use that force)?
I read and run fast … but ignorance is quicker than me and catches me soon and easily!!!!





Last edited by estebangc; 3 Nov 2011 at 00:32.
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Old 3 Nov 2011
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Calipers depend on the rubber seal around the piston to pull the piston back once you have released the pressure(taken your foot off the pedal). If the piston/caliper are corroded the piston does not pull back properly so some pressure/drag remains.
You can use pressure to pump the piston out to inspect it and the bore of the caliper, if it isn't too badly corroded clean it up with fine wet and dry paper, use brake fluid to lubricate it when you put it back in not oil or WD40 as they could cause the rubber seals to swell.If badly corroded replace the piston and seals and clean the bore with wet and dry.
The shims and springs stop the pads rattling about.
If the piston isn't pulling back(it only takes a fraction) then you'll get rapid wear, heat build up and an effect on the power and fuel economy.
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Old 4 Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by oothef View Post
Calipers depend on the rubber seal around the piston to pull the piston back once you have released the pressure(taken your foot off the pedal). If the piston/caliper are corroded the piston does not pull back properly so some pressure/drag remains.
You can use pressure to pump the piston out to inspect it and the bore of the caliper, if it isn't too badly corroded clean it up with fine wet and dry paper, use brake fluid to lubricate it when you put it back in not oil or WD40 as they could cause the rubber seals to swell.If badly corroded replace the piston and seals and clean the bore with wet and dry.
The shims and springs stop the pads rattling about.
If the piston isn't pulling back(it only takes a fraction) then you'll get rapid wear, heat build up and an effect on the power and fuel economy.

Estaban, as oothef says above plus my added coments below.

New rear brake disc/rotor installed with (almost) new pads!(I tried a moment the pads with the old disc and they got a little worn with the grooves/lines in the old rotor, reason to follow the "change all" advice).

But before I keep on with your wise (clumsy-proof) advice about the bleeding…

With the bike stopped on the center stand, I pushed the wheel for a couple of turns… and the brakes pads are touching/chafing the disc (the previous brake pads were at the end also touching it all the time, so it got worn…). "What keeps them separated?", I thought. Looked around and pulled out the sort of tabs of the "springs" (see photo) that support the brake pads, in case they should be pushing out the pads when not braking (those tiny things cost 32€ new in Yamaha France!). They pull more now, but the pads are still touching.

It is very hard to push the piston back (probably normal), so I put WD40 (never do this again, I fear you may have contaminated your brake pads, this is the last place you need any wd40 or the likes of ) around the rubber joint, since I was told so once. Same scratching. I don’t have those shims (what is that?) ( the shims are to prevent the pads from rattleing/chattering) they mention in the workshop manual, nor have I cooper grease,( my opinion, is use a very small (smear) amount of Red grease, not copper grease onto the back/rear of the pads, it helps stop that rattle/chatter of the pads where they make contact with the piston) could that be, do they stick the pads to the caliper??? I am reading 2'5 manuals (in German way toooo hard) and I'm still lost with those details. I understand the basics of the way the brake works, but not more than that, I guess.

What is wrong / what am I doing wrong? Or am I just too impatient and once properly bled it won’t touch (does it make sort of a vacuum with the piston to pull it out; how do you stick the pads then to use that force)?
I read and run fast … but ignorance is quicker than me and catches me soon and easily!!!!
Again as oothef mentions, the rubber seal on the piston appears to have degraded and no longer doing the job of keeping dust and dirt out of the piston along with the repositioning of the piston back into the calliper. Buy a seal kit with red grease and replace. You can PM me and I will send you in English the instructions.
Other wise doing fine! and we will get you running faster and with ease.

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