Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Ulrike Hahnel, Rock Formations on the Lagune Route, Bolivia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Ulrike Hahnel,
Rock Formations on the
Lagune Route, Bolivia



Like Tree1Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30 Aug 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
2kF oil pressure

Hi there,

How much oil should be coming out of the filter housing top screw when running?

I have problem with the engine locking up after 5mins of running... but starts again once its cooled down....

I've removed the 8mm screw on top of the filter housing while its running and there is pressure enough for the oil to overflow.... should it be shooting out?

Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30 Aug 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Open up the valve-clearance covers. There should be quite a bit of oil squirting out.

What do you mean locking up? After 5min you can't turn over the engine anymore?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30 Aug 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
Jip, it will seize.

Cheers for that, I will try that today.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 1 Sep 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
I took the oil pump out today and to me it needs replacing..... But I found another selling on ebay in far worse condition: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Oil-Pump...oAAOSw6-tbuvDk

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction as to what condition is considered replacement...
Attached Thumbnails
2kF oil pressure-69322447_666177923880443_9117136312845991936_n-1-.jpg  

2kF oil pressure-69390727_2360215817427180_4732107070227087360_n.jpg  

2kF oil pressure-69517733_3124382447602794_2906061334460235776_n.jpg  

2kF oil pressure-69720770_509127349632402_1351948506692059136_n.jpg  

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintnz View Post
I took the oil pump out today and to me it needs replacing..... But I found another selling on ebay in far worse condition: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Oil-Pump...oAAOSw6-tbuvDk

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction as to what condition is considered replacement...
I recently replaced my 3AJ pump because it was shot:

https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...-damaged-98084

I replaced it with a 2nd hand one from a XTZ660. It's the same pump, also has 3AJ on it. I think even the newer 2007 model XT660Z's pump is pretty much the same, although don't pin me down on it.

Anyway that pump on the picture I wouldn't use. Is that the replacement or your own one?
Here's some pictures of my 2nd hand one:

https://imgur.com/a/zJfbt23
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 3 Sep 2019
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
2kF oil pressure

Hi saintnz,

I have a 2kf for some years, learned how to make the engine last after a rebuild. Below is one of the articles i wrote, there are more but this one addresses the cause and effect of engine failure; 5th gear fails, metal particles destroy oil pump, oil starvation to piston and camshaft.

https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...solution-80123

You say "engine locking up after 5 mins of running". The pump can look terrible and still pump enough oil to prevent seizure.

Modifications made by Yamaha to XT600 over the years can cause confusion. 2kf didn't come out with a 3AJ pump. If you fit a 3AJ pump you also need to fit a 3AJ drive gear. Again, the gear can be fitted wrong way around, the pump works intermittently and can run for months before piston locks up. So check those.

Then, take some advice and protect the oil pump with strong magnets near the oil strainer.

Best,
p
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 607
agree with pete.... this is a mostly ball bearing engine, just the cam is plain bearing, very unlikely that it seizes due to not enough oil.... unless the pump is simply not turning for some reason.


Agree also on the fact that a badly scored pump is an almost sure sign of (the usual... ) 5th or 3rd gear damage, so not good news.


not much fun to do but to me it sounds like you need a full disassembly and finding out where is it seizing and to check the tranny.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete j View Post
Hi saintnz,
the gear can be fitted wrong way around, the pump works intermittently and can run for months before piston locks up. So check those.
HI Peter, what do you mean by this? If I remember correctly, the gear looked identical/symmetrical to me. I put it in the same way it came out, but looked like it didn't matter.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 4 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 607
DYP, if you put it upside down pump will suck the oil off the engine
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4 Sep 2019
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
2kF oil pressure

Hi Doubleyoupee, Turboguzzie, cc saintnz,

You're testing my memory.
The pumps: there are 3 pumps to be found in XT600s, in each the oil pump capacity was increased to address issues experienced with enlarging the brilliant XT550 (5Y1)engine to 600cc. The pump rotor was widened from 4mm to 6mm (1VJ) and finally to 8mm (3AJ). All pumps have 18mm scavenge rotors.

The 4mm pump has no marking in front, only 5Y1 on the back, as have all the others.
The other 2 are marked in front 1VJ and 3AJ respectively.

The gears: The 1st and 2nd pumps are physically the same size, so use the same drive gear, a dished gear without any marking, fitted with the dish facing away from engine, if i remember. The shafts on these 2 pumps had a single groove, for the circlip holding the gear in place.

The 3AJ pump, listed under various part numbers, was enlarged to accommodate the final wider pump rotor, and therefore needed the gear to be less dished to meet with it's mate behind the clutch.

Therefore you MUST fit a 3AJ gear with a 3AJ pump.

The shaft of this pump was marked under where the gear sits, with 2 shallow grooves, just as an identifier.

To explain the 3AJ gear being installed in back to front; the gear will fit both ways. It is nearly flat, but installed incorrectly will drive the pump intermittently and result in unreliable oil pressure.

I know, because, in a senior moment, i put that gear in wrong way around when repairing the little screw come loose on gear-change drum pawl. Bike ran like that for about 6 months without a sign. On a day, moving off from a traffic light, it gave 3 distinct consecutive pinks. While wondering 'where that came from' riding with thoughtful care, i felt the engine started to tighten up.

We ride on the left here, and after a quick oil level check, leaning over to the left, i turned the engine over a few times with the kick.

Started the engine to a new slight rattle, and rode home. And rode another +/- 100 while trying to diagnose the tappety noise. Gradually realized what i was going to find.

Happily that was a few years and many thousand km ago. I corrected my mistake, it still has the clatter, but maintains its knee-crunching compression if i get things wrong, and runs up to 160kmh way easier than before.

best,
p

Last edited by pete j; 11 Sep 2019 at 18:12.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 6 Sep 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
Thank you very much for the help.

The pump I removed has 1VJ on the outer casing.... The gear wheel has 3AJ and that was facing up looking at it directly... if that makes sense... so the flat side was facing in towards the pump (inside)

Last edited by saintnz; 6 Sep 2019 at 23:06.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 6 Sep 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete j View Post

I know, because, in a senior moment, i put that gear in wrong way around when repairing the little screw come loose on gear-change drum pawl. Bike ran like that for about 6 months without a sign. On a day, moving off from a traffic light, it gave 3 distinct consecutive pinks. While wondering 'where that came from' riding with thoughtful care, i felt the engine started to tighten up.


p
Hi there, thats exactly what happens with mine.... you can feel it starting to tighten up..... is it possible the combination of the 1VJ and 3AJ wheel is the problem? It was running reasonably ok when I got it, but I always felt it was restricted somehow...

So the oil pump gear is inline with the other gear but not central... hopefully you can see from the photo
Attached Thumbnails
2kF oil pressure-oil-pump.jpg  


Last edited by saintnz; 7 Sep 2019 at 05:15.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 7 Sep 2019
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
Hi saintzn,

Correct, the gears do not line up, it's the piston that is tightening up, that happens first.

You have an early pump with a late gear. Once you've cracked the code you don't need the picture to know it won't work. School fees.

best.
p
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 7 Sep 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleyoupee View Post
I recently replaced my 3AJ pump because it was shot:

https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...-damaged-98084

I replaced it with a 2nd hand one from a XTZ660. It's the same pump, also has 3AJ on it. I think even the newer 2007 model XT660Z's pump is pretty much the same, although don't pin me down on it.

Anyway that pump on the picture I wouldn't use. Is that the replacement or your own one?
Here's some pictures of my 2nd hand one:

https://imgur.com/a/zJfbt23
The pump shown is the one I pulled.... I brought a secondhand one off ebay that "looked" ok and confirmed by the seller it's in usable condition but it's for a early XT...... If all is well and it runs fine I will look at a new 3AJ pump..

Thanks for your help
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 7 Sep 2019
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete j View Post
Hi saintzn,

Correct, the gears do not line up, it's the piston that is tightening up, that happens first.

You have an early pump with a late gear. Once you've cracked the code you don't need the picture to know it won't work. School fees.

best.
p
So it should be fine and possibly not the problem? even if I spin the pump wheel around and have the "dished" side towards the pump I think it would still make contact with the other wheel... just trying figure out how it can effect the pump..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KLE 500 - No oil pressure suddenly SPYE Kawasaki Tech 16 31 Jul 2019 15:58
XT600 4pt oil pump air lock Ezra Hardy Yamaha Tech 6 8 Dec 2018 12:23
HIGH Oil Pressure feetchermancj Yamaha Tech 6 7 Jan 2014 18:17
XT600e oil leak bm150875 Yamaha Tech 6 18 Sep 2013 07:28
XT600E 2002 Engine Oil Trichelia Yamaha Tech 17 17 Nov 2011 14:25

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

  • California: April 18-21
  • Virginia: April 25-28
  • Germany Summer: May 9-12
  • Québec: May 17-19
  • Bulgaria Mini: July 5-7
  • CanWest: July 11-14
  • Switzerland: August 15-18
  • Ecuador: August 23-25
  • Romania: August 30-Sept 1
  • Austria: September 12-15
  • France: September 20-22
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 31-Nov 3

2025 Confirmed Events:

  • Virginia: April 24-27 2025
  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
  • Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
  • CanWest: July 10-13 2025
  • Switzerland: Date TBC
  • Ecuador: Date TBC
  • Romania: Date TBC
  • Austria: Sept. 11-15
  • California: September 18-21
  • France: September 19-21 2025
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:56.