 8Likes
 |
|
30 Mar 2018
|
 |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
|
Well - last top end rebuild I got a completely new cylinder mounted and new piston, rings etc. Top and valves overhauled and machined - but the bike still uses oil and fuel consumption is still shitty.
I had a Triumph Tiger 955 earlier on and at one stage that bike also started to use a whole lot of oil. But I got it rebuild and it was good as new, no oil consumption and fuel consumption was never an issue on that. Its strange to think about that if I rode the tuned 950 cc Tiger with around 110 HP in 80-90 km/h it used notably less fuel than my 48 HP Tenere at the same speed. Fuel is the single biggest expense on a RTW trip so it bothers me a lot, and especially since the Tenere newish I could get 27-28 kms/l.
I would like to hear more about the «ventilation of the engine» issue with the Tenere? Mine is running hot too for the moment, I have had thought about oil circulation issues or the PVC valve and the breather box. Breather box was improvisedly fixed at one stage. But unfortunately Im not very mechanically skilled so I dont know...
KTM 690 has many issues that I have read about, at least the earlier models. But then again its a highly tuned high performance machine. Its not a tractor like the Tenere. Anyhow - KTM was not a part of TS questions...
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bern, CH
Posts: 266
|
|
Hello
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
Tenere newish I could get 27-28 kms/l.
|
what is that in l/100km
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
I would like to hear more about the «ventilation of the engine» issue with the Tenere?
|
Know this thred in german:
Modifizierter "Ölabscheider" - Seite 4 - XT-660.de
Google of the part number 11D-E5371-10 I found that, hope it helps.
https://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=12331&page=2
https://www.xt660.com/showthread.php?t=8394
After 50tkm I had always oil in the pipe, so I removed the cap on the pipe and put a cigaret filter in it. So the oil droped out, couldn't measure how much went through the pipe or got burned in the motor.
Hope it helps
sushi
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi2831
|
Thanks for answer
27-28 kms/l would be 3,5 l 100 kms - and thats what a fuel injected 650 should get if ridden moderately. Lets say 25 kms/l if throttled up a bit. I have tried many other bikes myself and measured fuel milage and talked to many other riders on different bikes and I have spend quite some time and energy researching this issue. Even a BMW GS 1200 with a pillion got better fuel milage than I have, then clearly something must be wrong. I had a Suzuki Dr650 on New Zealand and even the carburated old school Dr got waaay better fuel milage than me.
20 kms/l will be 5 l 100 kms which is what I get nowadays riding max 80-90 km/h.
I have never paid any attention to the oil drain pipe. The last posting in the longest thread you linked to was from 2010 so maybe Yamaha has changed this?
I have never had any oil in my airfilterbox, then I never ride it at speeds above 100 kms/h for a long time. So I dont know....
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bern, CH
Posts: 266
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
27-28 kms/l would be 3,5 l 100 kms
20 kms/l will be 5 l 100 kms which is what I get nowadays riding max 80-90 km/h.
... was from 2010 so maybe Yamaha has changed this?
|
Hello
3.5l/100km on a XT660Z?
Not in my wildest dreams. Never read that someone achieved this over a long term back home.
I did 4.75l/km riding really relaxed on small dirt roads.
Up to 5.5l/100km on highways but hardly over 100km/h due to saving tires.
Wind and lugguage play a big part in fuel consumption.
So to me, 5l/100km on average is nothing to worry about with the engine.
I bought an other used Z (better than restore the old one) and it uses the same amount of fuel.
Yamaha changed the part on the new models and on the service if complained by 08-09 models.
I bought my Z new in 2011 BUT Yamaha Switzerland had too many 08 models on stock, so they slipped me a 08 in black.
Because of the rectifier problem I didn't go for a used 08-09 model and bought a new one... Found out on the road, best indicator ist the seat, 08 model is made of only one piece , then of course the VIN and Google.
sushi
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi2831
Hello
3.5l/100km on a XT660Z?
Not in my wildest dreams. Never read that someone achieved this over a long term back home.
I did 4.75l/km riding really relaxed on small dirt roads.
Up to 5.5l/100km on highways but hardly over 100km/h due to saving tires.
Wind and lugguage play a big part in fuel consumption.
So to me, 5l/100km on average is nothing to worry about with the engine.
I bought an other used Z (better than restore the old one) and it uses the same amount of fuel.
Yamaha changed the part on the new models and on the service if complained by 08-09 models.
I bought my Z new in 2011 BUT Yamaha Switzerland had too many 08 models on stock, so they slipped me a 08 in black.
Because of the rectifier problem I didn't go for a used 08-09 model and bought a new one... Found out on the road, best indicator ist the seat, 08 model is made of only one piece , then of course the VIN and Google.
sushi
|
3,5 l/100 kms is what I had on the Ten when it was newish. And 4l/100kms after changing sprockets to 3 teeth more on the rear and loaded up for a RTW trip.
And now 5l/100 if constantly ridden in fuel saving modus.
Its obvious that something isnt right, and thats with your bike too. A carburated Dr650 has 25 % less fuel consumption, a new V-Strom has 25-40 % less fuel consumption, a BWW 650 GS with rotax engine the same as the V-Strom. I could go on until we both fall asleep of boredom. 5l/100 kms on a fuel injected bike ridden moderately is faaar too much. My dads 1400 kilo 125 HP car uses less fuel than my Tenere.... 
My Ten is a 2011 for sure. So then I can stop thinking about the oil drenage problem I hope....
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bern, CH
Posts: 266
|
|
Hello
The above written 4.75-5.5 l/100km is what I remember by simple calculating in the head at the gas Station.
Just had a look at my statistic of my RTW.
I wrote everything in a excell, but only xx.x Liter, so there is a statistic error, in reality it's higher than that:
104150km 4.55l/100km
Big brother has more data:
https://www.spritmonitor.de/de/ueber...30&powerunit=2
sushi
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 489
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
3,5 l/100 kms is what I had on the Ten when it was newish.
|
no you didn't, 4.XX is what you can get most of that engine unless you're riding on neutral downhill...
3.xx gets my nc750x parallel twin and not always...
Yamaha XT660Z Tenere MPG - Actual MPG from 65 Yamaha XT660Z Tenere owners
BTW is it your first bike?
p.s.
Dude, and you really think that RTW trip tests the bike reliability the most and makes you more important ??? Number of steady, empty kilometers accumulated ??? I can as well put bike on stand in my garage and make it run all night.
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
no you didn't, 4.XX is what you can get most of that engine unless you're riding on neutral downhill...
3.xx gets my nc750x parallel twin and not always...
Yamaha XT660Z Tenere MPG - Actual MPG from 65 Yamaha XT660Z Tenere owners
BTW is it your first bike?
p.s.
Dude, and you really think that RTW trip tests the bike reliability the most and makes you more important ??? Number of steady, empty kilometers accumulated ??? I can as well put bike on stand in my garage and make it run all night.
|
I have told you what fuel milage I got and if you dont belive it its your problem not mine.
I have had 9 bikes alltogether. And I have rented many different models to try them/test them. I have been on organised bike tours with different models and I have borrowed friends bikes - so I have experience on around 20 different models.
Yes of course a RTW trip or a long overland trip is the ultimate test for a bikes quality. Because that let the bike be tested with under all kinds of climates, all kinds of road conditions etc etc often loaded up with gear and equipement. Actualky that goes without saying. This forum is actually intended for overlanding and RTW-trippers. Im sure there are a forum that suit weekend riders like you somewhere out there...
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
|
31 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bern, CH
Posts: 266
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
Dude, and you really think that RTW trip tests the bike reliability the most and makes you more important ???
|
Please, tune your tone, it's Horizons Unlimited.
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BC, sometimes
Posts: 578
|
|
Yes, but did he specifically replace the valves, guides and guide seals??? Sounds , like he lapped the valves in to me, possibly re-cut the seats, which implies he reused the valves. Even if he put new valves in , did he replace the guides???
I do suspect new valves, guides and seals would solve your oil problem and possibly your fuel mileage problem as well, although it isn't actually that bad at 55 mpg imperial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
Well - last top end rebuild I got a completely new cylinder mounted and new piston, rings etc. Top and valves overhauled and machined - but the bike still uses oil and fuel consumption is still shitty.
I had a Triumph Tiger 955 earlier on and at one stage that bike also started to use a whole lot of oil. But I got it rebuild and it was good as new, no oil consumption and fuel consumption was never an issue on that. Its strange to think about that if I rode the tuned 950 cc Tiger with around 110 HP in 80-90 km/h it used notably less fuel than my 48 HP Tenere at the same speed. Fuel is the single biggest expense on a RTW trip so it bothers me a lot, and especially since the Tenere newish I could get 27-28 kms/l.
I would like to hear more about the «ventilation of the engine» issue with the Tenere? Mine is running hot too for the moment, I have had thought about oil circulation issues or the PVC valve and the breather box. Breather box was improvisedly fixed at one stage. But unfortunately Im not very mechanically skilled so I dont know...
KTM 690 has many issues that I have read about, at least the earlier models. But then again its a highly tuned high performance machine. Its not a tractor like the Tenere. Anyhow - KTM was not a part of TS questions...
|
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by docsherlock
Yes, but did he specifically replace the valves, guides and guide seals??? Sounds , like he lapped the valves in to me, possibly re-cut the seats, which implies he reused the valves. Even if he put new valves in , did he replace the guides???
I do suspect new valves, guides and seals would solve your oil problem and possibly your fuel mileage problem as well, although it isn't actually that bad at 55 mpg imperial.
|
Its difficult for me to say. The top and valves job was done at another workshop than the rest of the job so of course they can have been easy on that part.
About fuel milage - you must consider Im riding maximum 80-90 kms/h, and sometimes far slower than that. Average out on 65-70 km/h I suspect.
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
Last edited by Snakeboy; 30 Mar 2018 at 22:44.
|
30 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
|
But thanks for the advise, I will definetively investigate about the top and valve job...
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
|
31 Mar 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bern, CH
Posts: 266
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Lischinsky
The yamaha is a xt660r 2006 or 2008
The bmw is a gs650 f 1 cil 2002
|
Hello
To return back to the original topic....
How many miles/KM have those bikes?
When I buy a bike I count KM x years.
A single cylinder bike has payed its dues after 100'000km or 10 years.
Past that point you have to put money into the bike.
No problem if you are a skilled mechanic but expensiv if not.
For RTW I'd advise to buy as new and few KM as you can affort.
Repairs on the way are not only expensive but most important not easy since "our" bikes are not common, not ridden by the average population, mostly by "the rich".
So, I'd calculate the length and time of your RTW and add this to the bike you'd like to buy.
Since I only had japanese bikes and remember every bad story of a non japanese bike I hear, I'd take only a japanese bike.
have fun
sushi
|
1 Apr 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BC, sometimes
Posts: 578
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeboy
But thanks for the advise, I will definetively investigate about the top and valve job...
|
I think you need to be very specific with the mechanic if you take it in. It is a straightforward job but I think the head has to be heated; you will need someone who can measure the valves and ensure they are in tolerance or replace them and of course seals must be done at the same time.
Be sure the oil is being burned, not leaked.
Finally, while it is apart, it would be worth pulling the cylinder to make sure there are no silly mistakes - a common one is not gapping the piston rings properly or fitting the oil scraper ring upside down.
Does it need a cam-chain while you are in there?
Good luck with it man - let us know how you get on.
Kind regards,
Sean
|
1 Apr 2018
|
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Back into the hamster wheel again, in Oslo - Norway. Did a 5 year RTW trip/250 k kms, 2014-2019
Posts: 1,551
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by docsherlock
I think you need to be very specific with the mechanic if you take it in. It is a straightforward job but I think the head has to be heated; you will need someone who can measure the valves and ensure they are in tolerance or replace them and of course seals must be done at the same time.
Be sure the oil is being burned, not leaked.
Finally, while it is apart, it would be worth pulling the cylinder to make sure there are no silly mistakes - a common one is not gapping the piston rings properly or fitting the oil scraper ring upside down.
Does it need a cam-chain while you are in there?
Good luck with it man - let us know how you get on.
Kind regards,
Sean
|
Thanks for advices and help, much appriciated. 
There are no visible oil leaks so I do think oil is burned. When I throttle up the bike while parked to 4-5 000 rpm I can see that exhaust is black. Btw - exactly as it was before.
The piston rings - well I was present when the old cylinder was pulled off and then the mech showed me that the two uppermost rings had the opening on the same place. Thus I do think he put new new rings on the correct way including the oil scraper ring. Although 100 % sure I cannot be.
It did get a new camchain on the first rebuild, some 15-16 k kms ago. I wouldnt think thats needed now.
__________________
In the end everything will be fine. If its not fine its not the end....
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)
Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|
helps answer the question - Why Go? Inspirational stories by veteran travellers Greg Frazier (5 times RTW), Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries), Tiffany Coates (Mongolia Mayhem) and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).
Get Ready! covers planning, paperwork, medical and many other topics! "Inspirational and Awesome!" See the trailer here!
What stuff do I need - riding gear, clothing, camping gear, first aid kit, tires, maps and GPS? What don't I need? How do I pack it all in? Lots of opinions from over 150 travellers!
Ladies on the Loose! For the first time ever, a motorcycle travel DVD made for women, by women! These intrepid women share their tips to help you plan your own motorcycle adventure. They also answer the women-only questions, and entertain you with amazing tales from the road! Presented by Lois Pryce, veteran solo traveller through South America and Africa and author of 'Lois on the Loose', and 'Red Tape and White Knuckles.'
Cotton or synth sweat-wicking t-shirts with the cool Horizons Unlimited graphic on the front and a snappy slogan (changing every year) on the back.
Show your route on your panniers. Great conversation starter when you meet people on the road!
Motorcycle and travel books to inspire and inform you!
The definitive guide to planning your motorcycle adventure! This insanely ambitious 2-year project has produced an informative and entertaining 5-part, 18 hour video series. "The ultimate round the world rider's how-to!" MCN UK.
Hybrid Mode
