Everything I know about HPN's I've learned from you Ali!

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Well guys, seems like we are still broaching on this subject yet again? It does get some airtime doesn't it? Maybe I can put my 50 cents worth in (inflation)!

Firstly I do own several BMW's and have owned other bikes in the past but never a KTM so I can't say much about them. At present I have 2 x R50's, 1 x R100GSPD, 1 x R100S and 2 x R1200GS. I haven't rode a HP2 but do like the look of them but too tall for my stumpy legs!

Anyway, I have just completed a 14 mth trip from Muscat, Oman to Bali, Indonesia via Yemen and East Africa, Sing, MY, Sumatra, Java etc. I used the 2004 R1200GS for this trip as I wanted to ride it home.

I would like to mention right now that this bike is marvelous on the tar and big hard surfaced roads. It has the power and weight to just sit there and thunder along. But! Take it to the soft stuff or tight stuff and you get a bike that will make you work your guts out to push it through. My main problem is the front suspension, small front wheel and mainly the weight of the thing. Another big let down is the high 1st gear! I am an ex trials rider so do ride on the pegs a lot so with this bike you are forever slipping the clutch even to get up 10% grades. I know that BMW have lowered 1st gear on the later models but they have been doing this for the last R1100, and R1150 models as well. When will they find their happy medium? When I left Oman and through Africa I did carry too much gear, around 40 kg. I finished the ride with about 20kg which is more than enough for this bike or any bike in my opinion. But that is up to each person, what they want to carry.

The bike has failed parts namely both suspensions and the alloy front wheel after I lost the front suspension. BMW changed the shocks but wouldn't send them to me and said I had to visit a BMW shop to have this done. This is kinda difficult when you in the middle of Tanzania and the closest dealer is in Nairobi and they were still killing people there during the election! So I purchased Ohlins for both ends, only 3000k for this!!! They would not even look at the rims and said that this bike is not meant for off road? I thought that was what GS meant? Anyway as you could only get this bike with these wheels in Oman I must have bought the wrong bike? An ON ROAD ONLY R1200GS!!! I did finally get new shocks for the bike in Sth Africa once I arrived there in September. I must say that the dealer here was much friendlier and more helpful then in Nairobi and Germany. Thanks to the guys at Donford BMW for all your assistance and help and the crate as well.

So once in Indonesia, this bike gets way too much attention! Every time you stop people want to touch it, sit on it, ask questions about it, ask where your going, where your from endless bloody questions! So best way to fix this is don't stop! Indonesia is a very spectacular country to see and if you speak some Bahasa it helps a lot in the out of the way places. Big problem here is that there are way too many small motorcycles on the road. 50% of them have unlicensed school kids on them so there are no rules and anything goes! Just remember, if you are in any kind of accident here don't stop, just keep riding! You will know why if you have ever been here.

So back onto the bikes, For my opinion I would not ride a 1200GS or even an 800GS again for his kind of trip. You have to remember the price of these things and therefore the cost of a carnet as well. Also Mongolia, the Stans etc don't have BMW dealers! And also remember that BMW make their money from cars and these are the high end of the market. They (BMW) don't like to have dirty, smelly travelers in their nice clean showrooms. This is why the bikes are targeted to the people who want to ride to the coffee shop on Saturday mornings etc.

I would be looking at 2 models of bike, an Africa Twin if you can get one? They weren't imported to Australia so it's hard for us there. And failing this I would ride a basic Suzuki DR650 with soft luggage on it. Fancy me saying this when I am now planning a "Round half the World" trip on a R50/3 but at least I can repair this old dear and I don't need any BMW workshops to keep me going.

Ok guys, whatever you plan to ride enjoy and watch out for the "Sepeda Motors" I had 4 hits in 2 weeks by them here!

Cheers

Ahh Dingo, never a truer word spoken. Why I am not surpised by your comments on suspension and alloy wheels?

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

I don't know why KTM riders feel they need to defend their noble steeds so heavily, maybe I needed to elaborate more on what I meant about the KTM's complications.
1st I must point out that I have never even taken a 950 or 990 around the block yet and have never worked on any of these bikes before.
I am just revering to what KTM riders them-self have told me; Doing basic services his a nightmare because fairings etc need to be stripped of to fit one of the oil filters, why does it need more than one.(640 Adventure) Then the biggest complaint from most KTM riders in South Africa is the time it takes to get basic repairs done. Dealerships are sparse and you sometimes can't even buy oil filters over the counter as it have to be ordered.
KTM have grown immensely in the last years since launching the 950 and I am sure this problem will get better.
As far as the pump issue is concerned; I am using it as one example to compare the differences and because I have heard of many bikes brought to a standstill on account of this. (Not every rider carry a spare pump.)

Besides all of this I would like to add that the KTM 990 is by far the most capable off road tourer of all the bikes in this class and coming straight of the factory floor!!!!

HPN is like having a Super enduro's suspension and chassis fitted with the fuel range and fairing of the 990 combining the best of both worlds in one bike fit for long distance touring where road conditions is deteriorated badly. HPN uses exactly the same forks as fitted to the 990 except the travel is 75mm more on the HPN, the wet weight of the HPN is less than the dry weight of the KTM.

The bike on the video clip can be fitted with the 43l tank and HPN adventure fairing in less than an hour. The small tank and fairing was fitted to give the bike its retro looks and currently it is used only for weekend rides and short trips.

HPN is hardly perfect but I find it to be the most adapted for my style of riding which often take me on the roads less traveled into areas where I need to do my own maintenance and repairs.
1st gear is very short, it allow you to go at a walking pace with enough revs to get up steep inclines.
Carbs is a real bonus here too as they give you much more control of idle, none of the snatchy character of riding a fuel injected bike.
In difficult off road riding the 1043cc Mahle motor let you do your riding keeping revs around the 3500rpm mark where you will find most of the torque, check the video clip again and listen to the motor.

I do not want to compare bikes here or start a mudslinging contest.
HPN for those who personally know the owners and people working at the company and know their designs and engineering philosophies will also know that when you get involved it is far more than just mechanics but you will find a certain soul that is alive in all of the work coming out of the HPN workshop. These guys are so passionate about their work and they are not driven by sales. They have more work lined up than what they can handle.
Their products are often criticized because it is based on old technology and their concepts are often missed or overlooked because they have invested no time or money in designing products that will blind their customers with flashy looks and trimmings and gadgets making it more appealing.

I have discussed HPN on so many of these threads that I thought it is about time to start a thread of its own.
HPN is not about whether you can afford it but rather if you can afford to go without it. For those that are searching for the ultimate off road riding experience, only a small handful will ever discover HPN but once you do you will find a way to make it possible.

You can start your own project for less than 10 000 Euro but if built by HPN to full specs it can cost up to 35 000 Euro and even more. 25 000 Euro can get you an amazing bike fully fitted for touring with the basic Mahle motor.
It all depend on how you want the bike done and the original condition of your donor bike.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but 35.000 Euro gets me around the world on a crap bike.

That beeing said, HPNs are sexy (at least to me), but in the decadent hobby of motorbike travel, using a fully kitted HPN probably takes the crown.

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Projekt Balkan
www.buebo.de - Der tägliche Wahnsinn

I must agree that the journey must take president over the mode of travel, I just get so much satisfaction of riding on a good suspension and chassis on really bad road conditions that it in itself becomes one of the most alluring parts of the trip experience. If your bike is only a means of getting from one country to the next then it does not really matter what you ride.

Hi Guys!

Fun with KTM's: my brother has a '03 Lc4 Adventure NICE BIKE i loved it !!

Before10TKM -the Batterie was dead(within 5 month!!)
-the engine was open 3 times (start problems)

Before 20TKM - Stearing headbearing ****ed( this bike had seen a bit of Marokko..400Km gravel)
- the engine guard fall off on the highway
The dealer said is acommon problem...after get it off ( a few times) for oil change the screws are ripped somtimes they tight it with cableties......sometimes the mecanics just forget that

finally with 24TKM the engine was close to complete ****ed! Doesn't matter just another 15ooEU!! Keep Throwing Money he still loves that bike;-)))



Friend's of mine just enjoying the breakdown;-) XTZ750 Supertenere powerfull nice bike

They know allready 4!!! Blacksmith's from 3 shorttripps to Maroc! I'am very envious on the their pictures!!!



But after all i wouldn't change my HPN against one of the other beauties!!

We left Germany in 2006 and did till now 62TKM in across Afrika and OZ and the bikes are still running well! (mine has now 160TKM on the odo with the the orginal engine)

Yeah..you're right that driveshaft is a pest...but have you ever seen a chain working for 60TKM (mine broke down with that millage) and the price was in 2003 400EU.

My chains on Streetbikes were usually done after 20TKM...


The price.....i had my R100GS worth maybe 2000EU and than i spend around 10000EU in the rebuild of MY HPN

I think the new 990 is a bit more expensive .


I love my rubbercow;-))) but there are defintly other bikes they will suit to other guys!!!!!

Greetings from OZ Werner+Claudia


p.s. have you ever seen someone searching for the sparkplug on the 990Adventure???

Great fun ,take a and enjoy!!!

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Just traveling
www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/longwayhome

So what's the problem? What's wrong with just talking about what you know and avoiding misleading people by not criticising (or praising) what you have no first-hand experience of?

Or better still... why not go and ride a 950/990, do a service on one (I'll email you a copy of my service manual if you wish), or sit in with someone who services their own? - Then you will be in a position to do a real like for like (albeit subjective) comparison which I'm sure we will all be interested to read. Who knows - you might convert a few KTM owners to HPN.

Aaaah, I liked that one!
Should have been my sig-line!

BTW: I've tested a KTM950...

Smug, self-righteous and patronising? That'll be me then.....

I see your point and I agree that quite a few people do it that way.
The idea fits to some continents, and more important to some peoples mind.

IMHO this idea works best if you can travel with what the locals do and you travel places where there are parts (and maybe knowledge) available.
If you want to go some places where the locals don’t ride motorbikes, or there are no locals at all you have a problem. If you want 500 km fuelrange you have a problem and so on.
But if you want to go from town to and help never is far away it might be a good option.


Okay, let’s say I want to go to Australia, and buy a bike. To buy and sell the bike I have to extend the trip with one week (at least) in both ends.
A friend of mine shipped his bike to Australia for 1000€, if I work hard one of the two weeks I can ship my bike, pay for the carnet and still have one more week for traveling.



Yes this idea fits if you travel in crowded areas, walking 300kms in the desert is not my style.

I think I would much rather travel on a train or in a car or even by foot hiking if the only reason for my trip was to get to some foreign country.

The pleasure of riding a bike that is intended to deal with tough road conditions is immense and choosing a route you would normally not go down because you are not sure if you or your transport will make it through and then discovering the most incredible places still kept hidden from the harsh influence of tourism.

I guess there are two types of bike travelers, - the 1st group like the idea of going to rough places but will end up following the known routes and going to all the popular places frequented by tourists and other travelers.
The second group is much smaller and they are mostly made up of guys that want to go discover something new, they want to go down a path not because they know of the incredible places they will find on the other side but because they just don't know what they are going to find. These are the guys that want to escape from civilization and just disappear into the blackness of the uncivilised part of this planet still covering the biggest portion of its landmass. They don't care how tough it is going to be and they sometimes are not even concerned if they will make it through as long as they are busy doing it.

I was comparing to the video , the Bemmer didn't have any luggage either, now as per my experience I prefer to be stuck in mudd in Laos Cambodia or in deep sand in Sahara with a soft luggage equipped XR650R than on the BMW, I think the HPN looks great but I have not tried them I have own many bikes and travel on many continents and lighter is better off road , now on HWY that is different but the HPN is not fitted for thateither . I think what made the reputation of BMW was more by the commitement to travel ( by the owners) versus it's use on some terrain or even reliablibilty. I found myself always pretty much wishing for lighter bike off road and to respond to the comment about speed I think that the HPN will be faster on good terrain ( maybe ) but go to see the Baja 1000 or some other type of rally, or do some ride on single track in Colorado and they are pretty much nowhere to be found.

Just what I think , nothing presonnal??

The point about weight is valid, at least when you are stuck in mud, as long as you can keep moving I find it okay.
This is maybe one of the most important differences between a standard GS and a HPN, with the HPN you generally use on gear higher when it gets rough. The key is to keep moving.


I live 3300 km from Africa (my favorite destination) so from time to time I cover a lot of highway-kms. Normally I drive 250 km (150km/h) before I take a short brake and I fill petrol every 500km. It’s not exactly fun but I can easily cover the 3300km in three days (even in bad weather). Yes you can find faster bikes for the highway but IMHO the limiting factors are the tires. I run T63/MT21.
With a standard R80GS I did 200 km (125 km/h) and filled petrol each 400 kms so it’s not that much different. This is not the reason (for me) to do a conversion.
A trip like this is often around 12kkm and not much maintenance is required, I only top up the oil, clean the airfilter and tighten a few bolts.

Sadly there are no rallies around here for twins. A few years ago it looked like there would be a “king-Enduro”-class but now it’s all gone.
It’s not even possible to start in the Dakar Rally with a large twin anymore. I think that’s a shame…

I like that...but the point of the journey is as unique to the individual as the individual is unique to others. So travel wherever or however...but f-ing travel...exploring is a good thing.

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edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com