My vote is for a CRF450 Rally. Having ridden a hopped up CRF250 Rally prototype with improved suspension, it needs more power! Keeping it no more than another 10 pounds would be fantastic - a great off-road and travel bike.

Note that I'm a big fan of small bikes for off-road, but for a bike to do both off-road and travel well you either need a very light 250 with a powerful engine, or a lazier=longer-lasting 450, and I definitely vote for the 450 version.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Ahaaa....!!!


Loving this thread cus it compounds my decision to build me a CRF500L and yes I have upgraded both ends of the suspension and will be increasing the fuel capacity.
Intended use of bike..?? Lots of off-roading and some overlanding/travel, i'll start a thread at some point.

any basic plan yet? Are you squeezing a 500 twin into the CRF250L chassis?
... or? I'm sure you've seen the build threads on ADV Rider on this? I've never seen one in person ... but if done right could be a GREAT bike. Hope you can
keep us dreamers updated on your progress.

That's me on ADVrider under different name Flipflopdog CRF500L build thread #4 its just I cant post pics from my work server for some reason..!!

Yes for sure but lets hope if they do bring out a CRF450 "Rally" it comes out in the form of a CRF450 "L" and stays cheap and cheerful with the long service intervals and reliability etc. There will be a wait for it though even if it does happen. Honda are now thinking of building a mid range Africa twin apparently, maybe a 650, although they say they are not working on it yet :

Honda Africa Twin 'little brother' on the way | MCN

That's something they would probably release before thinking of any 450 "Rally" I think....Maybe when or if they do build a 450 they could call it the CRF450 "Africa" and consider over landing as a design priority rather than "Rally replica" ? But it's doubtful, marketing men and stylists will have the final say probably...I love the "rally" styling but the bike many of us are looking for would also have the stuff people do after purchase when doing their "overlanding" conversions designed in. It's a thing many love doing and rightly so and it's amazing what some people achieve with their conversions but it can also be a pain when such things as a bigger or extra fuel tanks or whatever just aren't available or there are big compromises in fitting them such as using up airbox space etc. Nowadays there are also so many insurance implications when modifying from stock too and allsorts of regulations regarding fuel tanks in Europe. It's always going to be about cost though, or styling and competing with other manufactures on price, weight, performance etc. and it's a niche market. It's a bit unbelievable that some bikes come without even a stone guard on the radiator or oil cooler though, and even worse when (BMW) fitting one can affect warranty because of reduced cooling of the oil filter ! WTF? Intended use? Build it with one then! (I've got a BMW btw.). Some are having a good go though, there are some amazing bikes available. I'm looking for a change of bike in the not too distant future and at the moment (while we wait for Honda and their 450) I can't stop myself from having the Husky 701 Enduro at the top of my list. It's approx. 145kg dry (CRF250 Rally is 157kg "Kerb") 74hp good service intervals of 6000 miles, a 13ltr tank and good economy, the build quality looks good, its got a map for crappy fuel and it's well suspended with white power both ends. Yes the seat is apparently torture and a bigger tank would be really nice as it would be if some of the extra crash n bash protection was factory fitted but I think it's very nearly there. It's about £10,000 cheaper than a GS1200 ADV. and about £3000 more expensive than the CRF250L Rally. So pricing is not crazy I guess, it's crept up £300 for 2018 but hey.......Any thoughts ??
I've never owned a Husky or a KTM, Jap. stuff is hard to beat in some areas but I think Euro stuff has come a long way...hasn't it?

Good article! and MCN (IMO) have got to pretty much right.
Agree, Honda will most likely do smaller AT at some point ... When?

And hopefully a 450 Rally of some kind will appear as big brother to Made In Thailand CRF250L Rally. Why none of the big four have come out with a street legal, dual sport version of their 450 race bikes is a mystery to many.

GREAT Africa Twin sales means a smaller AT could, IMO, become a reality. Will Honda wait another year to see in sales continue strong? Which way they go anyone's guess. (500 twin? new 650 twin? 750 twin from current slug?)

IMO, Honda should take the 500, Hot Rod, increase HP, cut weight. But if they go with all new 650, would work too ... but likely would steal sales from the BIG Africa Twin. A lighter, cooler 500 could be the way. A 650 may still be too heavy, IMO. Weight is very expensive to get rid of.

Agree, KTM/Husky consortium doing really well. Much better reliability. That's why I bought a near new 2017 KTM Duke 690.

Didn't need it but deal too good to pass up! Way better than my first Duke ll 640 back in 2001. Fun tight back road hooligan bike.

KTM Duke ll from 2001

KTM are discounting Duke's but NOT the 350's or 690 dual sports or their Husky line of dual sport bikes. All super expensive here in USA. Maybe you get better deal in UK? I doubt it!

Those kits you linked to a few posts back are great ... but have you seen the prices? Add that to "on the road price" and it's quite a lot of money for a dirt/Travel/ADV bike that's likely to get beat up in a year of travel.

As some very experienced riders of many KTM's have said on other threads ... "a well set up DR650 can be about 85% as good as a new KTM 690 ... and is BETTER for fast highway riding."

It also costs almost nothing to maintain ... it's very hard to break. My own 60K mile, 10 year old DR650 proves this. 5 trips to Baja tip and back, plus lots more like rides out to Colorado, Utah and all round Nevada.

So, for travel ... IMO, it's hard to beat bikes like KLR, DR's, XR650L. Not fun enough? Only those who've never ridden a good one would say that!

But all that said, I love bikes and look forward to see the new ones coming.
BMW's new 850, KTM's new 700 and Yam's new T-7 all look promising ... especially the KTM.

I'm going smaller and currently have eyes on Yamaha WR250r ... but if Honda brought out a Rally 450 ... I'd be on board in a New York minute. I'd love riding the light Husky 350 or KTM 350. But fast is, for me, both are TOO TALL, too finicky and very expensive. Fact is, for travel you simply don't need a World Class capable Enduro bike. Some dirt ability is required but much depends what the rider seeks out.

KTM 690 Duke - 2017



DR650 in California Sierra ... thousands of miles of fire roads and trails.

chilling in the shade in Baja.

Hey Molly..on my phone so sorry for any typos.
It wasn't me who posted the links to those kits, it was Tbr china I think over on another thread..I just "liked" his post...but yes ..exy..still if you want it and its gonna be a keeper.
The husky is not the same bike as the ktm 690 but similar..It's def not a world class enduro bike either..it'a dual sport..a modern one yes, with some quality kit and real off rd ability yes, looks trick yes but it's a dual sport it doesn't need a piston every six hrs. It comes with passenger footrests in the extras box included!The 17 model is a diff. story to the single balance shaft previous models too...its 74hp too and the ktm 690 is still 67hp like last yrs Husky..so probs not got the extra balance shaft either.??..and Klr's & Dr's are ok though they are, are not really what I'm interested in..I don't envisage any bike I purchase getting too "beat up" in a yr of use either if looked after...I don't intend taking it around an mx track!.....good review of the Husky here if you fancy a read of it , good online bike magazine too, you may or may not know about :

Seven things we learnt about the 2017 Husqvarna 701 Enduro | Brake Magazine

Nice to see a new publication with Simon Pavey's son at the helm!
I've seen the Husky 701 in person. Would have had a sit, but too tall.

With a 36" seat height, it's too tall for me. In my Enduro race days I could have handled it but now, if it were loaded up, might be a bit tough and embarrassing.

The 701 Husky engine got exact same upgrades as my 2017 690 Duke got back in 2016. HP and torque figures vary slightly from publication to publication, my '17 690 duke is listed at 73 HP/ 55 ft. lbs. So, pretty close all round between Husky 701 and KTM 690 Duke.

Basically, KTM did a whole new engine in '16 and that is what is in the Husky 701 with minor differences.
Biggest change is balancer shaft arrangement for smoother running. My Duke is certainly better than earlier versions or my old 2001 Duke ll, but it's clearly still a THUMPER!

It's got a ton of power for a single and on a twisty road can keep pace with just about any bike or rider ... even guys on 1290's. At some point ... it's all about the rider. A fast guy could really rip it up on my 690. Mine has a Nitron shock, still need to do Andreani fork kit ... forks not great in standard form.

The 690 Duke also comes with the fancy TFT dash that the Husky doesn't have. ... which in bright Sun sometimes does not read well. In low light, it's amazingly BRIGHT! (too bright?)

As the review in Brake mentioned, that Husky will not be great as a travel bike as delivered. They didn't go into details, but I could see making it RTW ready might get expensive.

3.4 gallon tank, not enough. I spent $150 for my IMS 5.2 gallon tank on my DR650. Range up to about 220 miles plus reserve. A minimum for a travel bike, IMHO.

Other issue is rear sub frame and luggage. I'm sure the bike is an absolute DELIGHT to ride and if it could be cost effective to trick it out for travel ... then I might be on board. But for me, I'm thinking lower, lighter and CHEAPER!

But for your use around England, seems like the perfect Hooligan weapon, making punters on sports bikes look foolish in the twisty bits ... just remember to watch your (VIBEY!) mirrors as they Whistle by you at 160 mph once back on the straight roads.

My Duke is a lot of fun, but I'm probably going to sell. Only had it two months! (yes, I am truly an idiot!)

I'm just not the young aggressive rider I once was. How I made it out of that period alive, is quite a miracle ... but a story for another day.

I just can't use what the 690 has anymore. I know it's there ...
no way can I get there most of the time.

I do love a lot of things about the bike: Handling is very good ... but forks need work. Stock seat is very good too ... OK for at least two hours before a break needed. (Corbin seat on my DR650 is good for 4 hours easily)

Fuel economy is remarkably good. Seat height is VERY low at just 32.5 inches. Perfect for me.

But not ideal for travel and not great fast highway cruising all day riding with a group of Hooligans on 1200cc bikes averaging 80 mph for a full tank worth of miles.




OK, back ON TOPIC and more about the CRF Rally! Enough of these BIG KTM's and Huskies!

That's not quite what your opinion was earlier when I suggested the CRF250 "rally" could've used a bigger tank Mollydog...it was more like :
"Big tank? why? The ****ing thing gets over 70 miles per gallon ... who needs a big tank?"
Hey ho...only joking ....yeah I know, I don't think it matters anymore though....do you ?

Good point ... but the reason I made that comment was because the CRF gets about 70 MPG ... whereas, my 10 year old, 60K mile DR650 gets only about 45 MPG on average. Worse if plugging through deep sand.

No they said this :

"7. The potential is there to be an incredible world travel bike.
In it’s stock form it’s less than perfect for hitting the road. The wind protection is minimal, the seat can be found wanting and the 14 litre tank is, well, only 14 litres. It’s not intended to be a travel bike. It’s a dual sport but there is the foundation for something incredible.

When most super keen adventure travellers list what their ideal bike would have the only things missing from the 701 are luggage space, protection and fuel range. While they may not be incredibly easy to solve, it has been done. With a little modification and some creativity the 701 Enduro has the potential to be truly outstanding."

Potential to be an incredible world travel bike !!

Foundation for something incredible !!

Potential to be truly outstanding !!.....mmmh..sounds good