I think airbox is bigger, cooling better and no on/off behaviour from the FI.

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HansP
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Plus a better swingarm, brakes, lights and luggage/passenger facilities...

Don't get me wrong, the XTR is a great bike, but the Tenere version is certainly worth the extra few £££s... it also looks a lot better x

xxx

ah yea forgot to say not much difference for a 1 up rider.

I can see why someone who needs to take a pillion and wants to go off the beaten track at some point would want one but there is a good bit of a price difference. All my own personnel opinions. + some of those plastics are very expensive and even the crash pods im told are a few bob.

Between a 6000 Euros new XTZ and a 1500 Euros 10 years old XTE, which would be the most relieable for a RTW tour?

In keeping this thread alive for those buying off the net:
On Saturday I popped down to a Yamaha Dealer (in Kent just off the M2) who were advertising a New Tenere on ebay so I withdrew £5000 and went to see them first thing saturday morning, unfortunatley it had been sold on firday night...
I diddnt really like the black anyway!
I was told that the bikes are not available in the UK because they are cheaper than on the continent (Apparently £1000 cheaper) so many sales are to Non Uk residents... Also that yamaha UK were due in a few more bikes as and when they became available, so the future looks bright.

However I did get a good look at the bike and well its not really better than the old XT600 tenere in my opinion. And certainly not worth spending the £5000 I had in my pocket on if you already have the original (I have the 1VJ)

The "bash" plate was plastic, no really- plastic, so that has to be replaced immediately-£84 for the Yamaha Alluminium one

The Yamaha Panniers are Alluminium plates wrapped in plastic - yes the black stuff is plastic, hence these are pretty unuseable and you need to go to the after market for decent hard luggage -£450+
The Top case mounts were surprisingly flimsy and I would imagine that the case would come off when riding on any nasty section off road.
So thats a no-no too, but ok for city stuff.

The grey plastic protectors were interesting, I get it they are cheap protectors that are designed to be sacrificial in the event of an off. But they are really cheap, and I think about how many off's my Xt600 has had recently (2 handle bars this year) And I wonder if it is practical.

All the bull and hype about the Fuel injection woes is really a load of twoddle, basically the throttle is really sensitive, and coming from a carb (my XT600) to the injection (a mates Xt660) I can see the difference and why it has a bad name, its only sensitive, the new tenere is supposed to be the same though on paper it is slightly de-tuned hmmm. Something to do (apparently) with reducing the throttle resonse via the ECU electrogimickry.

What struck me initially was how wide the bike is compared to my Xt600 tenere, it really is considerably wider, at the tank level. My other bike is a BMW 1150RT, so i am happy with wide bikes... but this was a surprise I had not anticipated.

The New tenere has the exhaust pipes on the left side, (so that will warm up my other leg now!) and on the right side it has a plastic watertank, that looks ludicrously flimsy and exposed. You need Engine guards - £84

Another thing that struck me is those ludircous exhause cans. when you feel them, they feel sort of soft (dare I say it?) plasticky These look pretty but have no purpose other than to inflate the price, or reduce the quality parts that add up to the end product.
The radiator looks set to collect as many dings from bouncing rocks off the oncoming vehicles or the bike in front of you as it could possibly attract, so that needs a mesh guard too (no price).
It does however have a Tow ring, for when you need to pull it out of a quadmire... so apparently the bike is not capable of getting through a quagmire (note to those travelling through Congo / Zilov gap)
Those sculptured pillion hand grips are made from the same cheap nasty plastic as the sacrificial tank guards. (BMW's have a similar sort of setup with their topbox, but it is significantly sturdier due to the material used.) By now you may have a feeling for the opinion that I was forming...

I wasnt allowed to swing a leg over, but rather grovel around and take in as much as possible. But it did seem higher than my XT, but not impossibly so. and it did look reasonably comfortable for a thin sculptured seat

Deep down the New tenere has all the same elements Good chassis, Great engine Good geometry, but those cheap and nasty plastics, just ruin it for me, particularly when you look at how many of them there are, and given the size of the tank area it should be more than 22 litres especially considering it goes under the seat.
When someone bumps the tank up to 30 litres, and with decent luggage on it I will be tempted by a second hand one and being a suitable replacement for the original but until then for the RTW traveller. You are better off buying a older Xt660 or Xt600 tenere for around a grand and using the £4000 for the trip. With the new tenere you only get more expense, carnets, import/export costs maintenance etc

My net opinion was that I own a 21 year old XT 600 tenere, and its still going strong, I can work on it myself, and eventually solve all the problems it presents. I appreciate that with technology things move forward, but some of the Tenere's ruggedness has been lost.
[RANT START]
As someone owning a newish BMW (and owned a much older BMW) and an older Yamaha, looking at replacing both bikes I can see why BMW's do cost more to buy (but not for the service - you theives) They use better quality materials, from the Front brake lever, to the plastics. Across the board there is deffinetly more meticulous attention to the nett package that is QUALITY, and yamaha seem to have forgotten that.
[RANT OVER]
I do think that this new Tenere will still be running in 20 years time and that is a tribite to the basics that they have managed to maintain.

Cheers G

P.S.
I will not be replacing the BMW with the FJR1300 (I havent mentioned that I was looking at doing that too) too nasty as a comparison

As I walked out the shop (£5000 still in pocket) I saw a TDM and couldnt help wondering what possibilities lay with adding WR450 forks to the front end of that a bike, with its gorgeous engine, as after all this is actually closer to the true Yamaha Dakar bikes of old than the teneres.

Hmmmmm... Interesting appraisal there G - I wonder if you'd have been so scathing if the bike had actually been for sale still, and you were now riding around on it (I presume the £5000 in your pocket was there as you were pretty sure you wanted one?)

In the interests of fairness to other readers, I'd like to counter a few of the observations you made regarding features of the bike.

• The price/availability sounds like dealer bullsh!t to me - the bike is around €6000 in maninland Europe, which at current exchange rates equates to around £5000 (ie the list price) here. A few dealers in the UK still have new stock in limited colours - Woods, Abergele in North Wales have a beige one, and someone posted that a dealer in Carlisle has a couple of black ones still available.

• With the greatest of respect, the new Tenere is better than a 20 year old bike in almost every respect, but as you say, if you already own one, and are comfortable/confident with it, the original XT600's still make a great RTW/travel bike.

• The Honda works team race their Baja bikes with plastic bash plates, in fact the O/E XR650R bashplate is preferred by Johnny Cambell even on the new CRF450's. There is nothing wrong with plastic per se - it is flexible strong and light. Afterall, if it's good enough for petrol tanks etc etc.

• I agree with you the O/E luggage is not particularly robust, although as you surmise it would be fine for the majority of people using it as a day to day bike. Fortunately there are already a number of aftermarket luggage manufacturers making pannier frames for the new Tenere, so you could fit whatever boxes you prefer (Metal Mule, Hepco Becker etc), or of course stick with soft luggage which many overlanders prefer. As for the top box - I'd say that mounting system is actually very substantial, but even Touratech do not recommend using a top-box in serious off-road/overland conditions.

• The plastic tank protectors are meant to be cheap, so they don't cost a lot to replace? The are a polythene type plastic and ought to bare scuffs and scratches well. I understand they are about £25-30 a pair if you ever do need to replace them. This is surely better than scratching a painted (plastic) tank? Perhaps you just didn't like the textured finish on them?

• Interesting you thought the bike felt wide? I would say it's no wider than any other overland bike fitted with a similar size tank? Btw. the tank does not extend under the seat (unless you count the very front edge of the seat pad), the airbox and battery take up the space in the black triangle below the seat. This was journalists getting it wrong at the launch. As for needing a bigger tank? This bike averages around 60mpg and has a range of around 300 miles - more then enough for most people I would have thought?

• I wouldn't say the coolant header tank you mention is overly exposed - it sits above the right hand crankcase, has a plastic cover, and would only suffer damage if it fell on something pointed that went into the gap between the engine case and the tank.

One thing I found with the new bike is how accessible everything is for inspection/maintenance - the coolant level, the spark plug access (without having to lift the tank), oil dipstick, air filter and battery terminals under the seat, etc etc.

• As for the exhaust - why ludicrous? And yes - the covers over each 'can' are in fact plastic! The exhaust itself is a single square box under the passenger seat, that houses a catalyst so it conforms with the current Euro 3 emissions standards. The plastic covers actually provide an effective barrier between the (hot) exhaust box itself and luggage/pillion legs etc etc. You may not like the styling of them (and I don't particularly either), but these can be changed for aftermarket single or double systems should an owner desire (simply junking the catalyst at the same time, and undoubtably saving a bit of weight too).

• You mention radiator guards and engine guards? (and metal bash plates) - any bike that is going to be used extensively overland will need additional preparation. You cannot expect a manufacturer to supply those sort of components as standard when as many different owners with have their own preferences and requirements? That is what the aftermarket business is for. Yamaha do offer their own tubular engine guard and metal bash plate, as do others like Metal Mule, who also have a radiator cover in stock for those who feel they will need it. Same goes for luggage - the Yamaha O/E stuff is only one of (increasingly) many options.

• As for the towing/recovery eyelet - I thought that was an inspired way to cover the holes in the bottom yoke (as the bike has a low front fender). I would suggest there are not many 180Kg bikes (or riders) who can successfully ride through a quagmire? I'd have thought having a recovery point (or handy lashing point for shipping/ferries so that straps don't rub on the tank unnecessarily) on any overland bike is a very good idea?

• Your rant did make me smile - after all, this bike is a budget machine, and is certainly at a budget price - what were you expecting for £4899? (and I paid less than that for mine). The cheapest BMW is nearly a thousand pounds more than that, and if you take a look at a new F650GS, I imagine you'd come to the conclusion it looks half finished...

The new Tenere has Brembo brakes front and rear, a (modest) quality Sachs rear shock, aluminium braced bars, bar ends, 4 position adjustable front brake lever (the same one as you find on much more expensive machines), alloy rims - good lights, instruments (including a fuel gauge), large tank, full fairing - that is a lot of bike for under £5000! - which is why it has proved so popular I imagine?

As for your idea about the TDM (quite apart form the cost of converting the front end yourself), the new 2009 'Super Tenere' is muted to have that engine (possibly bored out a little further) and may well address some of the 'quality' issues you have regarding plastics/component specification... maybe Yamaha will be able to tempt you yet?

xxx

JMo and Photographicsafari, that has to be the best attack and (better) defense on the Tenere. Anyone who is contemplating one should read your posts.

I looked at this bike but went with a KTM 640A. Clearly I'm less than impartial with my username. These were *my* reasons compared to the Tenere:

+ KTM 640 Adventure :
Carbed - rarely runs perfect, but will always run
Will go anywhere the rider is able, the difference counting especially in sand (edit: as in this is based on a pure dirt bike with roadgoing mirrors etc added)
Light
Ready to go RTW, not needing even the smallest change/mod/extra. Eg look at the handlebars on the stock tenere - guards? levers?
Flaws are well documented (numerous)
Nothing visibly cheap on it (but expected due to the difference in new cost) everything looks well/over engineered
Looked like it could be dropped all day long with no issue
Massive tank

-640: (now I have one)
Consumption sucks at 60+mph compared to fuel inj bikes
Wiring causing failure of components (most serious for me was the ignition barrel wiring, but was bypassable)
Service intervals very short compared to... anything else
Toolkit is in a stupid place
Not a comfy bike. It's not uncomfortable either. You can ride it as long as you need to.

I love the noise it makes and it's great fun to ride. It has buckets of character.

The vibes are a non-issue. Not a problem on the motorway, and irrelevant if beign ridden 'at home' on dirt tracks. Numbness etc is an internet myth.

The 640 justifies itself if you wish to take it the 5% of places other bikes struggle. Soft sand, tight technical trails, jumps/drops etc with luggage. If you're not planning on going everywhere, it's probably not worth living with the compromises it makes.

HTH.

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Apologies for a bit of a thread hijack so I will be brief - G, I have an XTZ750 with a TDM 850 engine fitted and Wr450f forks fitted. You are right, it is a gorgeous engine, big booming 270 degree crank, feels like a big single, lovely strong forks, it's all good. I not going to pretend that it is a Dakar bike or anything but it is not far removed. The frame has been beefed up, it's got Excel rims, MichelinDeserts, IMO etc etc and I love it to bits

There is a company in Luton that specializes in the build of these thing. Yamaha seem to develop bikes with lots of common parts and it is amazing that the forks and engine slot virtually straight in

Hijack over but it is about Teneres, albeit Super Super Teneres

No hijack - sounds awesome! - what we need is a picture though Dick?!

xxx