There are other threads in here about the TDM; in fact years ago, the XT600 forum was altered, i.e. enlarged, to take account of the fact that Yamaha do manufacture a range of bikes, including that popular single cyl
As for the Versys, Kawa are probably being very cautious about their luggage carrying capability; I would expect that luggage manufacturers, other than OEM kit, would supply a top box and panniers arrangement, so long as you don't exceed the stated all up weight limit for the bike.
In the discussion about this bike, I was interested in it's two-up capability.
I am not sure where that thread is; it could be under the "which bike" forum rather than the "Kawa tech".
It may also be listed as a KLE650 topic/heading?


Agreed, for a single rider with or without luggage it has done a fine job for me also - there is a 7 year old F650GS twin spark in my garage.
The longest single day ride I have done on that bike is about 560 miles in one hit along the 2/3 lane motorways.
It is certainly a very smooth single cyl bike compared with many other singles - there are lots of earlier threads in the HUBB about this bike, stand alone or in comparison with other bikes of similar specification.

I have always shied away from this after experimenting with such a load - it is just personal choice; I agree it can be done, but the passenger may not have the best experience overall.
Maybe it was just the way I ride, but the passenger was constantly banging the front of their helmet against the back of mine!!
Again, this has been discussed elsewhere, so it is a case of whatever floats your particular boat.
I have taken the F650GS around a lot of the Alps and I would not want to have a lot of luggage and a pillion on the bike on such rides; again, just personal choice.

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Dave

I think the airhead paralever gs should be on your list. Similar weight to the TDM and Africa Twin with the added benefit of shaft drive. Mechanically extremely simple and easy to work on. Excellent 2 up and carries a good load. The only issue is findind one in good order at a sensible price although that probably applies to most of the bikes on your list.

I'm sure that product liability makes a lot of manufacturers very cautious about stating weights etc, just in case someone tries to carry a load of bricks over a ploughed field and then sues them when it breaks

Worth a call to Kawasaki, I think, as I like the look of the bike and a friend who has one thinks very highly of it.

The airheads seem to be around the 210kg mark, which is at the upper limit of what I really want. I like the R80GS and especially the R100GS P/D, but there aren't many about, and at around 50/60 bhp they have quite modest power compared to the more modern bikes. But I will keep my eyes open and if I see a good one I will think again.

The 2-up capability is very important if I am to change the Sprint (I am keeping the XT no matter what). If I were going solo, I would just take the XT, no question. I have done a lot of trips on it with camping gear in the UK, and it is ideal. But I have only taken a passenger on it once, and it wasn't a nice experience. The bike was totally unbalanced and a pig to steer.

Thanks for all your comments. You have give me a lot to think about.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

An immaculate, restored probably, 100GS PD was on ebay for a long time with an asking price of just under £10K; these are yet another bike that has become over-rated (whatever that means exactly) and are heading for a collectors' garage.
I can still feel your thought process; a few years ago I stepped off a Honda Blackbird that I was riding two up with luggage and that was a superb touring bike; with a passenger and lots of luggage it went even better, with the suspension operating in the mid-range of it's travel and the back tyre digging deep into the road surface.
Now that the shaft drives are under discussion I would throw in the XJ900, Yamaha Diversion which I used to own a few years ago; that bike is vastly under-rated and it has no direct replacement in the current Yam lineup - the FJR1300 appears to use exactly the same shaft final drive bevel box etc but, after that, the FJR is much heavier and bulkier.
The Divy is a fine bike for two up and nowadays it is very affordable if you can find one for sale; there are a few around, but I suspect that owners tend to hang on to good ones.
You could take your pick of all XJ900s on offer for sale with a 3K budget but you won't get far in the BMW market with that same budget; sad, but that is my assessment of second hand asking prices.
But, it is not just about the all up weight of a particular bike; the CoG of the airhead is relatively low and that will compensate for the bulk of a rider/passenger/luggage at a higher position.
Nor, are top end power figures the full picture; for hauling weight up to a particular speed (i.e. acceleration) the torque output is much more relevant - the airheads have this in abundance, as do V twins.

(I can hear the voices in the background referring to "off road" capability, but none of these shaft drive bikes are for off-roading, depending on how you want to define such activity).

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Dave

According to the specs I found the standard R100GS is 210kg with a full tank of fuel (23 litres or about 16kg) and the AT is 205kg dry. P/D version is 20kg heavier. I think the bhp figure is about the same as the AT.

I don't put much store in published weight specs. as some bikes feel light others feel like lead bricks. None of the twins on the list can really be called off road capable as they all weigh too much for ordinary riders to throw around with confidence.

Any bike will tackle gravel roads whether it has off road pretensions or not.

I suspected as much about the P/D - great-looking bike, and rare enough to get the 'collectors' salivating. OK, strike that one

I'd agree about the power issue. My Ducati (1000cc, 92 bhp) seemed a lot more powerful than my Bandit (1200cc, 100 bhp) just because the power came in much more suddenly and the torque launched it much quicker. I'd go for modest power and good torque any day, so your point is taken.

Thanks for the info about weights etc. Your point is proved by my experience with a Bonnie. I always felt it was a light-ish bike, but the next owner complained it was too heavy for him. When I checked, it was over 200 kg, but it carried its weight low and was quite manageable.

I'd disagree with your last comment, though. My Sprint is very capable on tarmac, but a nightmare on any loose surface - low, narrow bars and a forward riding position mean that you haven't a hope if the front decides to get away. I dropped mine (walking pace, little damage) on a piece of gravelly dirt at work. I can ride the XT across the same ground and it's loose but controllable, never a problem. I guess I am looking for a bike that's half-way between the two. I don't need full-on enduro handling, but a pure road bike is too limiting.

Thanks again, appreciated.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

I ran my Bonneville on Heidenau tyres about as knobbly as you could get in the size limit and needing tubed. The difference over what the dealers fit on gravel tracks/rough roads is the difference between dragging your feet in first gear and bimbling along in third. The same roads on the F650 or XT600E I had before would be taken in any gear you liked. Fifty miles of Norwegian detour on the road tyres is hell, on the knobblies just part of the ride and on the "humped in the middle" type bikes a bit of fun.

The odd one is the Enfield which does just seem to go where you point it regardless (and slowly).

Andy

Yes, perhaps I should have said 'any bike with high wide handlebars will tackle gravel roads......' My Le Mans is a nightmare on a loose surface.

Spot on.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

Another vote for the TDM. I've had an XT600, Transalp and now the TDM. The TDM is by far the better tourer. I find it a very economical, grunty, smooth & relaxed ride on long distance tours.

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A ship in the harbour is safe, but that\'s not what ships were built for. Anon

Thing is, the TDM is physically quite a big bike. The Sprint I have is all of those things (an astonishing 57 mpg (UK) average touring 2-up with luggage, cruising at 90-100 where possible) but I'm looking for something smaller and more manageable. I had a good look at (and a sit on) a 650 V-Strom yesterday, and that is quite big enough for me, I think.

My thoughts have crystallised a bit since my first post. The upright riding position is a must. In fact, I want my XT600E but with another 10-20 bhp, a better seat, and a bit better balance (i.e. less top-heavy) for carrying a passenger and luggage. The 660 Tenere would seem to tick most of those boxes, but I am keeping an open mind. Gotta sell the Sprint first!

Thank you for your thoughts.

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2006 XT660R daily ride, 1994 XT600E about to be reborn, Blog: http://goingfastgettingnowhere.blogspot.com/

Is the Teneré that confortable for a pillion? I think that this was a key point for your choice.

It was for me when I rented the V-Strom, otherwise be sure I would have gotten the Teneré, it's a cake, the more I know, the more I love it (well, add that some rentals accepted only 1 up with the Teneré -as the XT660-, but for Southern Africa on rougher roads).

Hi again
IMHO:if you travel long distance with passenger and luggage at decent speed and you want some comfort you need at least 70hp better 80-100 hp.
First rule:forget one cylinder.Even some two cyliner bikes have not enough power (Africa Twin...)
660 tenere is a nice bike,even "tourer" if you want but for one person and better for light off road then for motor way.5 hp more then XT600 (and also 40-50kg!) is simply not enough juice for two up,luggage and decent speed.
All big enduros are big bikes but usually not so heavy as real tourers.
TDM has only some 20 kg more then 660 Ten but also 30 hp more.
There is NO "XT600E" tourer with 70 hp,comfort....on the market today.
Perhaps the best numbers has 800GS,only the number before GBP(Eur)is not so good..

I'm with Bluebus on this one - V Strom DL650 or DL1000 seem to tick ALL your boxes.

I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki VStrom range of bikes (all models and marks). Apparently, the DL650 is considered a better buy (but not necessarily a better bike), than it's more powerful sister the DL1000?

Most of you will probably know I'm a confirmed XT fan with a love of single cylinder bikes especially the Yamaha XT series of bikes, but these do NOT perform well at high speed and against a head wind.

I'd say an XT600 is happy to cruise all day at no more than 60 MPH but hey are most happy plodding along at 50MPH.

Another bike I would give serious consideration to is the twin cylinder Honda Transalp - XL600V, XL650V, and XL700V.

I think any single cylinder will struggle to tick ALL your boxes including the love of my life - the XT600.

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Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

BlackDogZulu,
I saw a 650 Versys today fully fitted with Givi luggage; a top box and two panniers - so it can be done!
I am still not sure about that subframe when used with full boxes and a pillion passenger - the Ducati-like trellis framing looks very spindly.
i.e. the subframe tubing is very thin compared with similar designs by other manufacturers, such as the Ducatis or the Yam TRX.
On the other hand, those frames are carrying the weight of their engines.

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Dave