Old wives' tale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Having ridden on and with a few different bikes over the Pyrenees between France and Spain (close to sea level up to 2500m) I have to say that FI is the way to go. The caveat is that the manufacturer must be experienced in FI:- I have been warned by someone with greater knowledge and experience than I that the system in certain orange bikes is not as robust as BMW's for example.

CCM 604 (air cooled rotax, delorto carb) was running a bit rough by 1000m and got worse as it climbed higher.
DRZ400S - CV carb, was also popping and farting and down on power.
BMW F650GS (single) as you know altitude seems not to affect it.
BMW G650X Challenge - No discernible difference in power but it uses even less fuel than normal.

The G650X series may be worth looking at. In the UK they never really caught on and it is possible to buy one for less than a late model F650GS (single). Practically the same engine you are used to but the bike has been on a 40kg diet.

From experience: the BMW runs fine without a cat, without a lambda sensor and you can even fit a 10% larger fuel injector in about 10 minutes. This gets round the very lean settings enforced by emissions regulations and improves running, at the expense of slightly increased fuel consumption of course.

FI is incomparably better than carburettion. The only negative to FI is that if your battery dies (including losing a single cell) then the FI is guaranteed to cease operation. However, putting this into context, there are many carburetted bikes that will also stop running if the battery dies.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

+1. Just like to add to that that there are now batteryless FI systems available. Wish I could retrofit that. FI is amazing at altitude. You may have to down shift because of the powerloss, but it still purrs as normal.

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Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Just about all bikes will stop running if the battery dies ,unless they have a permanent magnet alternator or use a magneto to provide the sparks .

They are many negatives to FI and the one that bugs me the most is the mapping ,try riding a Vstrom across a muddy field and you'll see what I mean ,the power comes on abruptly and is a bit like an on/off switch ,it's landed me on my arse a few times .It's fine on the tarmac but you can't feather the power in like a carbed bike .

Most people on this forum are travellers rather than mechanics and for them the best bet is to take a new or fairly recent bike and rely on the FI system [ there aren't many carburetted bikes available new these days].
And that's probably a goood thing because they shouldn't be messing with crap they don't understand ,Hells' teeth, most of the people who write ride reports are astonished when chains and sprockets wear out !


But for the old guard who insist on riding 20+ year old bikes ,well ,they'll have to put up with carbs for the most part anyway ,and they'll most likely love every minute of it .

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

I can't add much to the debate about carbs and FI but I can respond directly to Uhuru's question.

I ride a 2008 DR 650 with a stock carburetor. I live and ride where you do in Colorado over high passes. I also have traveled on it in Mexico, and Central Asia. The stock carb runs fine without rejetting from sea level to 14000 feet. The bike makes about 35 hp so it is probably a bit slower than your F650 which I believe produces about 50 hp.

The DR650 is lighter and more agile, I think, and also quite tolerable on the highway. I've had no problems with mine (37,000 miles now) and trust it to go anywhere. It will, BTW, start and run with a dead battery.

The DR would be my choice, obviously, but I ride with guy who has a Dakar which has served him faithfully as well.

..................shu

I just added a 650 V-Strom to my "fleet"..

I bought it as it was FI and people talked about great MPG's.

On a good run, It can do 250-280 miles from its 22L tank which is about the same as my Africa Twin was with its 750cc 20 year old design. (although, the AT was thirstier in town)

It's also got that twitchy on/off power delivery like most FI bikes which I also refuse to spend £250 on a powercommander to fix.


FI bikes are VERY reliable as long as they're not B*W's/Aprillia with their dodgy fuel pumps..

Then again, the Africa Twins have even worse fuel pumps although it's an easy fix..

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

As a committed Linux user I adhere to the principals of “open source” and having control over all things software related and at the heart of FI is a computer and software. This makes FI bikes (and cars) problematic for me as their boxes are for the most part sealed and you are denied the ability to take control of the software that controls them.

Of course there is software that can give you control over (some of) your ECU's but as has been said by other posters, you are still constrained by the sensor suite the manufacturer has furnished your engine with. My biggest bugbear with ALL manufacturers is the narrow band lambda sensors they use when for a few pennies more they could fit wideband sensors that can transform the feel of an engine and give you infinite control over your fuelling. Without this simple feature you will never have decent fuelling on a FI bike as they are all now designed to conform to emissions regulations which in turn means the OEM's tune them to stoich and only stoich.

If manufacturers read these sites and in the unlikely event any of them wanted to build a serious RTW bike then they would sell the option of wideband sensors (one for each cylinder) and an interface to a computer with open source software.

Until that happens (as if!) junk the OEM ECU, junk the OEM lambda sensors and fit a megasquirt/microsquirt ECU together with some quality Bosch Wide-Band Lambda Sensors (LSU4) and with the free open source software take control of your bike back from the manufacturers, dealers and EU bureaucrats and tune it in whatever way you wish.

As Magnon said the components that make up an ECU are ridiculously cheap, in having a megatune made for you you can specify redundancy and ruggedised parts and multiple fail over features mean that if you have sensor failure the system still works. You can tune for any power, fuel quality or economy characteristics you desire for each gear sometimes (22:1 lean in top gear – lol) and have multiple maps you can switch to on the fly.

Megasquiting compels you to have a thorough understanding of your bikes ignition/injection, It's sometimes a steep learning curve and not for everyone but if you get into megasquirt beware, it is addictive but equally rewarding – how many KTM riders know that the rear cylinder is tuned differently to the front cylinder? Power Commander? - do me a favour! Lol.

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I´ve owned a total five(!) AT´s in the past, one 650 and four 750´s, and now I´m on my 2nd DL650... and there´s a notable improvement in fuel economy. Might not be so apparent if riding slowly, but more speed & load on board, then it becomes obvious. If both are in standard form, the Honda is way more thirsty (not the only carb´d Honda to have this problem, check out XL650/XL1000) - I still love the AT, though!

DL650´s throttle response can be fixed, or at least made way better, in less than 5 minutes, and no need to install a Power Commander.

Thank you very much Ted

Got it

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"where the traveller goes, nobody knows ! "