Thanks for the replies.

The KTM is top of the list but have been put off by reports of poor reliability, cost of parts and very thin (competent) dealer network in places. Also passenger comfort may be an issue but we've yet to test ride one two up. The major plus is that it uses good quality brakes and suspension and the fueling seems to be sorted now. I currently have a 690E which is OK.

The 1200 Tenere looks good but, as ever, I would be concerned that a lot of the original components would start to clap out at a fairly early stage. Need to go and test ride one.

I didn't say in the first post, but one of the main reasons for the new bike is that I'm hoping to have the time to put a lot of miles on it over the next couple of years so I don't want something that is always needing sevicing/parts.

basically it boils down to if its not reliable and long living, its not worth crap isnt it?

I would also consider looking at the Suzuki V strom 650 and 1000's as well. as I understand, with decent tires, those are pretty friendly at higher speeds, and able to handle going off the beaten track. havent seen many complaints, but I never looked into suzuki much as I'm just not big on owning their stuff.

You must be mixing the new Yamaha Tenere' up with BMW or KTM. The Yamaha Ten 1200 may be heavy and expensive but you won't be having any parts clapping out on you any time soon. If nothing else it will be reliable and last a long time. If you leave it out in Winter or ride on Salted roads ... well then .... you're screwed.

When you say "trail" riding in the Pyrennes, the guys I saw riding there were on Trials bikes. No GS, KTM 990 or Yam Tenere' 1200 is going anywhere near the trails I saw. Super knarly stuff. Perhaps you know easier routes?

Fire roads, sure, no problem, even mild two track OK. But a real trail could be a challenge, especially two up. I would bet the Yamaha could go two years with NO SERVICE. (not ideal, but it won't care)

The other bike to consider is the BMW F800GS. Fit a better seat and should be OK. Very easy to ride in mild off road conditions. I rode the F800GS and a NEW R1200GS side by side. The F800 is SO MUCH nicer off road. Of course you have to deal with usual BMW failures but not many on the F800. A really nice bike, IMO.

I'm looking for a replacement for my R100GS. We've used this bike for very long distance touring 2 up and it handles the sort of trail riding I expect it to. However, it's now getting on a bit so I'm looking for something with more reliability and, at least for a while, something that doesn't have a never ending list of 'maintenance to do' issues. The GS's shortcomings have always been in the touring part of the compromise - Motorway/A road cruising speed is a bit limited, wind protection is also a bit limited, brakes are feeble by modern standards and the handling on the road is slow and ponderous compared to more modern bikes.

So I tried an 1150GS for 3 years but never really liked it - dangerously heavy off road, didn't like the hot weather and very uncomfortable.

Of course, I could make some improvements to the above bikes, especially the R100GS but it's still 20 years old. I did make some changes to the 1150 but still never got to like it.

The 21" front wheel could be a bit of an issue. It is part of the reason the R100GS is ponderous on the road and it definately felt odd on the F800GS I rode but the 690 enduro handles very well on the road, so perhaps it's more to do with geometry than wheel size.

KTM adventure is still looking like the best option although far from perfect. Would be interested in any feedback on the Stelvio and Multistrada but I think the dealers are even thinner on the ground than KTM dealers.

Just my view on things but it seems to me that KTM comes with good quality rebuidable suspension, good brakes and is generally put together using good quality parts (except wheel rims?). You pay for the quality components. BMW use relatively poor quality parts but charge a lot for the finished product. Other manufacturers build their bikes down to a price and it's generally accepted that aftermarket parts can be a substantial improvement over the OE.

How much time did you spend on the F800GS? How did you find the power? I spent a couple days on the F800GS ... would never describe it's handling as "ponderous". It's not R-1 or a KTM 690SM but a very solid yet light handling bike on all our beat up California back roads. Not bad off road either. Plush suspension, smooth power, great brakes. I really liked it ... and I am not a BMW fan. Excellent bike, did everything well. After just ten minutes I was comfortable enough to ride it fast and hard on unknown roads. For me .... that is a good sign. It's a winner.

The Stelvio is a bit of a Turd, IMHO. Just rode one at the USA National Moto Guzzi Rally. Free Demos. No one seemed to like it. I really wanted to like the Stelvio. I've tested many Guzzi's before and in the end almost always like them. But it takes TIME. I only rode the Stelvio for half an hour. I was shocked at the massive vibes. The Griso was much smoother overall ... but not good two up.

The KTM is a great bike ... but didn't you say before you did not want a "high maintenance" bike? If you are willing to put in the time with the KTM and can learn all its ins and outs, then all is fine.

We've got about 8 of them in our riding group. You really have to look after them carefully. I've ridden the 950 Adventure and 950SM and 690E. I also owned a KTM Duke ll (2001) Neither single is two up capable. The 990/950's are excellent bikes if you can handle the maintenance. They get better and easier every year but real mechanics make the best owners of these. I would have no problem with one in Europe, but wouldn't go to Mexico on one ... even though they have dealers there. I don't trust them ... but I've never owned one of the 950/990's, so who knows. But you "hear" a lot of "stories".

True, good bike, but pricey.
All suspension is re-buildable. But why would you worry about that? KTM suspension is pretty good WP stuff. Not the junk BMW use. Might need some fine tuning but once set-up, should be good for years. True, rims are soft. Are you planning on doing Triple jumps or riding the Erzberg Rodeo on a fully loaded 990 Two up? :confused1: Whamming a rock will dent the rim, seen it happen in Baja. My advice? Look where your going and loft the front end over the bad ones when possible. Slow down! KTM components are pretty good overall ... 2nd only to all Japanese components .... actually many of key components used on the KTM's (F.I., ignition) are Japanese.

With BMW, not so much the parts themselves .... more that they are poorly designed systems and not spec'd correctly for the job at hand ... thus more failures than should be. The final drive is a perfect example. And how did you like the electrics on your R100GS?
But the F800GS uses a Rotax motor, has been mostly OK, but not perfect, from what I've heard. Two friends own F800's, both doing OK after a year.
Nothing major.

In many cases aftermarket parts are crap. It's often just hype, an illusion, catalog bling. OEM is most always best ... at least with Japanese bikes. There are some exceptions of course. I don't follow BMW stuff much, but many complaints about Tourtech parts.

The Multistrada would be great (but unproven) if you've got about 22,000 Euros to spend. I've not ridden it, two friends just bought this bike so I'll get on it soon I hope. I would not take it far off road ... perhaps very well groomed dirt road? Not a dual sport/adventure bike by any stretch. Crashing a new Multi would be TRAGIC!

To be fair to the F800GS is was only a relatively short ride two up directly after riding the 1200GS. The back end was probably set too soft for the two of us and, as a result, the steering felt strange (but mostly didn't like the fact it was too cramped for 2). Other than that the power and general rideability was good.

I'm a real Guzzi fan but from everything I've seen and read, I don't think I'll take the plunge and get a Stelvio

I don't have much faith in either of my local KTM dealers. The other day the new dealer, who is part of a Suzuki dealers, tried to convince me that DRZ valve shims were exactly the same as the ones for my 530 exc. I can deal with the maintenance but would prefer not to have to.

Someone wrecked a front wheel on a 990 on the 1st French Adv. rider rally last year as a result of a fairly small accident. But no, I've never managed to damage a rim yet so I don't think it'll be a problem. The Japanese make some very good components including suspension.

The standard alternator is a weak point on the R100GS but other than that I've not had a problem. OE suspension is rubbish and was replaced before the bike was ridden and has been upgraded since. The original exhaust died from old age and was replaced with an aftermarket version which has been fine but other than that the bike is standard. I appreciate its 'low-techness' more as time goes by.

Accessories are another matter, many so called adventure bike accs. are just not fit for purpose


I'm sure it's a very good bike but as an off roader I'm sure it's just a 'styling exercise'

[quote=Mickey D;296778]You must be mixing the new Yamaha Tenere' up with BMW or KTM. The Yamaha Ten 1200 may be heavy and expensive but you won't be having any parts clapping out on you any time soon. If nothing else it will be reliable and last a long time.

Are you from the future?

No, just empirical evidence based on hours in the saddle of Yamahas.

Have you owned or ridden extensively any modern Yam Sport Touring bikes or Sport bikes?

I've ridden several current model Yamaha's over the last ten years. I've also noted the condition/history of several in our riding group. We do a ride a month, YEAR ROUND, usually 3 to 4 days on the road. The FJR1300's in our group are holding up beautifully. NO issues. Both now up to about 60,000 miles of aggressive use.

We've got another guy who has an FZ-1, like new after three years. Quality appears consistently good throughout Yamaha's products. Even my '07 WR250F dirt bike is good, actually it's great. Drop it in a mud puddle? Hose it off, looks like the day it was made. NO ISSUES! I'd suggest stripping one apart and see how they are put together.
Check out the comments over in the UK on the 660 Tenere'. Holding up really well from what I've heard.

I also ride with a an old Geezer (70) who has put 200,000 (no, not 20K, 200K) miles on R-1 Yamahas. An '05 (80K miles), an '07 (100K miles) and now a '10 (up to 20K so far). Not a whisper of a problem with any of them.
The '05 idles like a Rolex. 80,000 miles on it. Paint work, rubber bits and plastic all look very good, no rust or corrosion on Aluminum.

And if you think this guy is slow and easy on the bikes ... Please come and try to keep up with him on our back roads He is an X pro Flat Tracker. Blazingly fast, talented. Loves his R-1's to pieces and he rides nearly everyday. (retired)

The fact is Yamaha have an excellent reputation over the long term.
The OP is coming off a 20 year old anachronism ... yet seems Cock Sure of what he wants ... like he has owned and ridden all the bikes mentioned . No shrinking violet, that's for sure. My guess after his 35 HP BMW that 110 HP 1200 Yam, 135 HP Multistrada or 90 HP KTM 990 would have him shit his pants.

I would bet money the R1200 Tenere' is not only reliable but will hold up well to weather and hard use for years and years. It's just what Yamaha do. They don't make many bad bikes. Go to the factory ... see for yourself.
It may be too heavy and overpriced but it won't be falling apart or dropping its final drive or burning up a water pump any time soon.