South East Asia And Then Some

[Pip the Scotsman]

Evening folks,

Myself and my girlfriend and planning a year out next year from work...never did the uni gap year so we figured now's a good time with the economy in the state that it's in and having saved a couple of pennies.

Last couple of years I've developed a dislike/fear of flying and that's opened up overland travel for me.

We're planning to travel from Moscow on the Trans Mongolian/Manchurian to Beijing, spending some time there learning Mandarin and exploring. Then we're heading to Shanghai for a bit more of the same. After that we will keep traveling overland to HK (where my girlfriend is originally from and has a house there) where we'll spend a month or so seeing relatives and relaxing before heading to Vietnam.

When we get to Hanoi we plan on buying a motorbike and exploring the north before taking the bike down to HCMC then into Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia where we will stay for a while.

From there we were going to try and get overland to India but I'm not sure if that's even possible (or probably very £££).

We'll spend some time in India, traveling all over before flying home - I'd like to carry on and see Turkey but I doubt that our money would last that long!

Our other option is doing this trip in reverse. I'd like to know if anyone has an opinion on either direction, the route or some good old advice.

We both like to get off the beaten path and have a big interest in food. Neither of us is against stopping off to work along the way, and if we can organise something, we'd like to help out with some sort of charity/conservation group.


A couple of questions...

1. I've read a few posts on here and other sites about crossing VN, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia with a bike and there seems to be conflicting information on border crossing.
Can you take a bike, bought in VN, across these countries?

2. What documentation will I require?

3. In China, I've read that you simply can't buy/rent a bike and drive through the country. Is this true? and do you need a government guide if you are going out of the cities?

4. Does my girlfriend, who has a HK card and passport, get any benefits i.e. allow us not to require a guide?

5. Is it possible to travel from Thailand to India? I expect that it's Burma that's the problem. Does anyone know if it's possible to travel through there? Failing that I'd be keen to get on a ferry/cargo ship of some sort.

6. I'm sure there's been plenty people who have done this sort of trip, could anyone give me a rough indication on how much to budget?

7. Depending on which way round we're going to travel, can anyone tell me what might be a good time, weather-wise, to start in each country. We're not bothered about being in the rainy season but I'm concerned about biking through VN etc as that's going to affect our travel.

Also, if anyone is doing all or part of these places next year it would be good to share tips/research and maybe hook up along the way.

Thanks for reading, happy biking!

[twobob]

Re no 5 I have been interested in the Thai-India route for some time so I'll follow your attempts with interest.
Bloody Burma !
India worries that that the Andaman islands (India) are too close to Thailand and Malaysia so are quite strict with entering and leaving India this way.But in recent times there has been a loosening of rules with direct flights from se asia so I think it may be worth pursuing.

[Pip the Scotsman]

Hi TwoBob

I would like to keep to overland travel as much as possible but this might be one part of the trip we're probably going to have to be sealed into a can of other people's farts and flung into the sky!

Other than that I read a book called Escaping the Winter by Anne Mustoe (which isn't that great and seemingly aimed at people with plenty money) which suggested some cargo ship companies that have a few places for passengers. It would be a fantastic way to enter India but I'll have to see about the restrictions.

I'd like to see Burma, there's quite a lot of mystery about the country but, as you say, Bloody Burma!

[pecha72]

I believe you can do Burma (or at least parts of it) as a backpacker. But going overland between India & Thailand is another thing. Especially with your own vehicle — sure you´re free to try, but I REALLY would not count on succeeding! If you´re first time in the region, might be easier to simply forget it, and think of other options; probably saves you a lot of headache.

It seems it might be possible to ride all the way from Laos (not Thailand — look at the map, and you´ll see why!) to India... but it means a long trip thru China, and likely to cost so much with the guides & paperwork, that it´s out of reach for most travelers. I believe that on this forum, there has been a figure of +6000 euros (per head!) for going that route in the other direction in 2007. And Tibet is a sensitive region, so might not be possible every time (plus you´d be crossing the Himalayas as well as the Tibetan plateau, so don´t take the weather challenges lightly!)

Bay of Bengal: NO ferries between India & SE Asia since decades. Possibly some big cargo ship, with a very limited # of cabins, going between Chennai & Singapore(?), but appeared random and all but cheap. It is possible to freight relatively cheaply, by sea or by air, between several cities/ports in the region, and because of the reasons mentioned above, that´s how vehicles usually travel between India & SE Asia.

Browse the forum, and you will find plenty of discussions about exactly these same topics.

[Pip the Scotsman]

Originally Posted by pecha72

I believe you can do Burma (or at least parts of it) as a backpacker. But going overland between India & Thailand is another thing. Especially with your own vehicle — sure you´re free to try, but I REALLY would not count on succeeding! If you´re first time in the region, might be easier to simply forget it, and think of other options; probably saves you a lot of headache.

It seems it might be possible to ride all the way from Laos (not Thailand — look at the map, and you´ll see why!) to India... but it means a long trip thru China, and likely to cost so much with the guides & paperwork, that it´s out of reach for most travelers. I believe that on this forum, there has been a figure of +6000 euros (per head!) for going that route in the other direction in 2007. And Tibet is a sensitive region, so might not be possible every time (plus you´d be crossing the Himalayas as well as the Tibetan plateau, so don´t take the weather challenges lightly!)

Bay of Bengal: NO ferries between India & SE Asia since decades. Possibly some big cargo ship, with a very limited # of cabins, going between Chennai & Singapore(?), but appeared random and all but cheap. It is possible to freight relatively cheaply, by sea or by air, between several cities/ports in the region, and because of the reasons mentioned above, that´s how vehicles usually travel between India & SE Asia.

Browse the forum, and you will find plenty of discussions about exactly these same topics.

Thanks for the info. There's quite a lot of info about overland travel from Malaysia to India, some of it conflicting, some good news and some bad news but I think, for the most part, it's going to be quite a costly and lengthy task to get through Burma.

We're currently looking for a route by sea from Malaysia to northern India. If anyone has info on this it would be most welcome.

thanks again.

[mark manley]

Originally Posted by Pip the Scotsman

I'd like to see Burma, there's quite a lot of mystery about the country but, as you say, Bloody Burma!

I flew into Rangoon from Bangkok, about the only way to get in, for three weeks backpacking last year which I normally wouldn't do but it is a great place to visit and would recommend it.

[Pip the Scotsman]

Originally Posted by mark manley

I flew into Rangoon from Bangkok, about the only way to get in, for three weeks backpacking last year which I normally wouldn't do but it is a great place to visit and would recommend it.

Thanks for the recommendation Mark. Is travel within Burma not quite restricted by the government?

[mark manley]

Originally Posted by Pip the Scotsman

Thanks for the recommendation Mark. Is travel within Burma not quite restricted by the government?

Yes, you can only stay in licenced guest houses and go where they want you to, but there is enough of that to make it worth while and there was not the oppresive atmosphere that some places with questionable governments have.

[twobob]

This is my plan , please don't laugh.
Have Indian visa pre-arranged, turn up at yuppie yacht ports in Thailand and offer deck hand duties for passage for me & the bike to the Andamans. Then ferry to India. this maybe in reverse ?
I said don't laugh.

[ChinaV]

You can get a lot of information about living and motorcycling in China at mychinamoto.com. Just a little food for thought....Why choose Beijing and Shanghai? They are about the worst that China has to offer when it comes to quality of life and motorcycling. Why not pick Kunming in Yunnan and Chengdu in Sichuan? Those are two of the best locations for motorcycling and outdoor lifestyle...you can learn Mandarin anywhere.

I live next to Hong Kong, stop in for a when you get down this way.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[twobob]

Hi chinav Thank you for the info , I hope more people from China will post here it will help clear the way, to allow the adventurers amongst us to forge friendships in your country.

[Pip the Scotsman]

Thanks Mark - I think we're going to probably leave the bike in Thailand, travel round Burma and come back to Thailand. I would like to see Burma, as I said, and I don't want a little red tape to stop that.

I might just try that Twobob, I can see myself in a pair of deck shoes and white trousers swabbing the poop deck

ChinaV - We weren't really planning on biking round China as I was under the impression it was near impossible for a foreigner to buy a bike. If you rent a car in Beijing, apparently you cannot take it out of the city.

I certainly don't want to stay in Beijing/Shanghai (Beihai??) for long (I live in a big city, I don't really want to holiday in one)
If it's possible to get a bike in China I'd be happy to bike around. Our other option was to take the train to various places.

Do you think it's possible for us to get hold of a bike and (as legally as possible) tour the country?

What else would you recommend in China? We were looking at the Yangtse River (local chinese boat not a cruise) Xian, Terracotta warriors, the Great Wall.

We're certainly going to be in HK for a while - my partner is from HK and we're going to stay with relatives for a few weeks at least. So we'll go for a pint.

I second Twobob's comment, China needs to open up a little more now that's it's starting to take centre stage in the world.

safe travels all!

[ChinaV]

Originally Posted by twobob

Hi chinav Thank you for the info , I hope more people from China will post here it will help clear the way, to allow the adventurers amongst us to forge friendships in your country.

I do call it home these days, but China is not my country, I'm merely a guest. I really wish things would open up for independent travelers here, but it doesn't look like they will anytime soon. That said, I always have a cold one in the fridge for any motorcyclists that make it over.

Originally Posted by Pip the Scotsman

ChinaV - We weren't really planning on biking round China as I was under the impression it was near impossible for a foreigner to buy a bike. If you rent a car in Beijing, apparently you cannot take it out of the city.

I certainly don't want to stay in Beijing/Shanghai (Beihai??) for long (I live in a big city, I don't really want to holiday in one)
If it's possible to get a bike in China I'd be happy to bike around. Our other option was to take the train to various places.

Do you think it's possible for us to get hold of a bike and (as legally as possible) tour the country?

What else would you recommend in China? We were looking at the Yangtse River (local chinese boat not a cruise) Xian, Terracotta warriors, the Great Wall.

A few things to consider. Most people don't announce how they maneuvered through the grey areas in China to ride a bike. Officially, it's not supposed to happen, but people do come here and ride bikes around. Some spend huge dollars on legal tours and others skirt the bounds and go their own way. I leave it up to each person to decide what is best for them.

There are official tour agencies that rent bikes and organize tours. If you're not going into Tibet or sensitive parts of Xinjiang, you're more or less free to roam around without a government escort.

Other stuff:
Beijing has some cool sights like the forbidden city and nice day trips to other points of interest.
Shanghai, why bother, you're going to be in Hong Kong so you will have plenty of chances to see Gucci and Prada stores. Shanghai offers little in the way of culture or history, it's just another big asian city full of appartments, restaurants and shopping malls.
The Yangtse is pretty gross, and I would stay away from it.
I took my family to the Terracotta warriors and we all enjoyed it, but there's not much else to do in Xian. More than 3 days would be pushing it.
The Great Wall is cool to see in remote areas where it hasn't been re-constructed and turned into a tourist trap.

Some things that I've enjoyed:
Yunnan = Luguhu - Dali - Lijiang etc. Really nice area of China, one of my favorites.
Guanxi = Yangshuo (near Guilin) is very beautiful and a great place to chill out.
Zhangjiajie in Hunan was pretty cool.

Good luck
ChinaV

[Pip the Scotsman]

Hi ChinaV

Hope you're well. I understand that you must be getting tired typing about all the Chinese bureaucracy to people coming to China but I've been reading conflicting information about getting a bike license in China.

We'll be arriving in Beijing, off the Trans Mongolian and wanted to get a bike to explore China before selling it at the HK border (as i've heard the authorities don't like you taking a bike into HK)

I've got a British driving license and International Driving Permit but wanted to confirm a couple of things about getting a license in China...

1. They require a residents permit. If we're staying with friends and on a tourist visa can we still get one?

This guy managed it - Riding the horse to death: Chinese Driver License


2. I can buy a second hand bike and take the plate number to the police to check that it's legal - correct? I've heard that they make 5 bikes all with the same numbers then apply for 'lost papers' until they have enough for each bike. Are there any things we should look out for when buying a bike?

The same guy above had this problem and had to pay a hefty fine to get his bike back.


3. Would you recommend any good bike insurance?


4. Are there any bikes you would recommend for 2 up riding all over China? Has to be comfortable for her to save my ears from the whining!

5. Does it matter where I get the license issued - do other provinces recognise a Beijing issued license?


6. Have you been on the luge at the Gt Wall?
YouTube - ‪Mutianyu Great Wall Luge‬‏



Many thanks

[ChinaV]

Originally Posted by Pip the Scotsman

Hi ChinaV

Hope you're well. I understand that you must be getting tired typing about all the Chinese bureaucracy to people coming to China but I've been reading conflicting information about getting a bike license in China.

Of course you have...that is how China works.

We'll be arriving in Beijing, off the Trans Mongolian and wanted to get a bike to explore China before selling it at the HK border (as i've heard the authorities don't like you taking a bike into HK)

You won't even get close to the border of HK, it's surrounded by a city called Shenzhen that doesn't allow motorcycles.

I've got a British driving license and International Driving Permit but wanted to confirm a couple of things about getting a license in China...

Doesn't matter what you have for a license, unless you're from Belgium, then it's rather easy...can't explain that one.

1. They require a residents permit. If we're staying with friends and on a tourist visa can we still get one?

This guy managed it - Riding the horse to death: Chinese Driver License

"This Guy" is a good friend of mine with great luck. As he clearly stated on his blog, he shouldn't have been given his license. He shouldn't have made it across Tibet either, but he did. It's all about timing.

You can get a Registration Form of Temporary Residence from just about any police station, but I doubt that will help with applying for a license these days.

2. I can buy a second hand bike and take the plate number to the police to check that it's legal - correct? I've heard that they make 5 bikes all with the same numbers then apply for 'lost papers' until they have enough for each bike. Are there any things we should look out for when buying a bike?

The same guy above had this problem and had to pay a hefty fine to get his bike back.

If you get a second hand bike, check the blue book (registration) and green book (title). As long as the numbers match, you're probably good to go.

3. Would you recommend any good bike insurance?

Bike will come with it, but carry enough cash to resolve minor issues. Insurance pays you, after you have paid for an accident.

4. Are there any bikes you would recommend for 2 up riding all over China? Has to be comfortable for her to save my ears from the whining!

The only thing that is really good for two people here is the Jialing JH600.

5. Does it matter where I get the license issued - do other provinces recognise a Beijing issued license?

No it doesn't matter where you get the license from. It's valid everywhere.

6. Have you been on the luge at the Gt Wall?
YouTube - ‪Mutianyu Great Wall Luge‬‏

Have only seen the Great Wall in places where you wouldn't know it was the Great Wall. FYI, you know there's no YouTube in China...right?

Many thanks

Good luck with your trip plans!

Cheers!
ChinaV