Have a quick read of this:

Why Travel with a Land Rover
Why Travel With A Land Rover?! — The Overlanders

What do you reckon? Sums it up fairly well?

What is your experiences of travelling with a Landy?

Stay safe and try not to get lost
Gwyn & Linzi
The Overlanders
The Overlanders
www.facebook.com/theoverlanderspage

Yes, you have written a decent case for the LR which goes beyond the common arguments about the technical aspects.
Your affinity to the oval badge is clearly expressed.

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Dave

I just returned from a 10 month trip all around Africa with my Defender 110 Tdi. And yes, I had a few break downs, but the "TinTin in Africa" feeling was very strong!
It's all emotion, in the end. Defender drivers greet each other all over the world! That's not the case with other 4x4's.

Cheers,

Gee

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Travels with Thimba
eBOOK!

Just out of curiosity, how do you guys meet and greet folks who are driving a Discovery, with or without a 200/300tdi engine under the bonnet/hood?

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Dave

Perhaps I will be blacklisted on some Dutch Land Rover forums for this, but:

in Holland it's only real Land Rovers (that is: Defenders) that greet each other

Cheers, and happy travels!

Gee

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Travels with Thimba
eBOOK!

Thanks!

It is not much different to some motorcyclists then; not that this is a problem.

Hardly Dangerous riders who have the special wave that is delivered only to other HD riders for example.

Attached Images

 

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Dave

Pity the 110 and 90 design didn't keep up with the times. The original agricultural designation remained and while capable some interior design work to address poor seats, uncomfortable driving position and dreadful electrics wouldn't go amiss. Iconic? Absolutely. Great to travel vast distances in? Not really. The fact that it's a nice regular shape doesn't help - folk overload them, make them top-heavy and then wonder why they break.

Spent far to many days using and being abused by one on a ranch (Series 2) and more in the army (Series 3 and Defender) to want to have one again

Was so happy when given a Unimog to drive lol

But I understand the attraction. I have no desire for that kind of hobby though ... My desire is to be able to rely on the vehicle, not pray for deliverance. And I know there are countless Landies that give no issues. Except you can't expect to take a mistreated one into the bundu and not have it consume time and money. Pity really.

Umm - I don't think I was sniping? The design issues are well known - safety issues are also well documented. And other vehicles have the same or similar challenges especially older ones.

But the subject is Land Rover. And unfortunately many people equate the name with capability when that may not be the case. You've got to realise that there are lots of 2nd hand spares in the boonies. For a reason - lots of Land Rovers never left.

And the same is true for other marques.

But this thread is about Land Rovers ...

PS - note I've not made any comparisons to anything else and only noted my joy at swapping a LR for a Unimog in a conflict zone - which most people would be happy about because you can add armour to the 'mog fairly easily

I've just re read all the postings on this subject and to be honest, unless your being rather paranoid, I don't really see much sniping going on. The original article was extolling the virtues of a particular marque, and some have replied in support of that, some have disagreed, and the majority of those who have disagreed (many of whom have stated their considerable experience of landrovers) have stated their reasons why. Thats not sniping, that's reasoned debate. Just because someone doesn't agree with your choices doesn't mean they don't have a valid opinion!

Sniping would be something like 'you drive a xxxx WTF, you loser, only a complete idiot with an unfeasibly small penis would drive one of those, you need to drive a xxxx!'

Which I don't see here.

Most people who have made vehicle choices other than land rover have gone onto to explain that they don't particularly object to any marque, just that they made a different choice and why, and tbh, they seem rather more open minded to other peoples choices than some of the owners of the oval marque!!

I love my HJ60 but I'm sure if I posted something extolling it's virtues as an ideal overlander people may disagree, and probably with good reason, I'm not blindly deluded to it's shortcomings. That's fine, the marque is strong enough to take it, the vehicle is good enough to take it, and, I am happy enough with my choice to take it, and more importantly, it doesn't really matter. It suits me at this point in time and I love it. That's enough for me, I don't have to defend my choice any more than that.

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Lol well said. Unfortunately 2 wheel travel isn't always possible where wild animals with big teeth live. And there will always be those who bash other marques be it 4 wheels or two - I've seen BMW GS bikes being seriously dissed on some forums. As long as folk play the ball and not the man, all should be sweetness and light. Unfortunately, homo sapiens just aren't wired that way and so a pi****g contest ensues. Pity really.

Folks tend to use what suits in the long run - and that is often driven by finance. After all, we don't all have millions in the bank (thank goodness - how boring would that be?). What I hope is that people do their own due diligence before spending their dosh - it helps prevent the tears later.

Enjoy your travels - however you get to your destination. Just do it in safety and at least a little comfort ;-)

This was the OP's original question in the 1st post

Moggy was answering this and Cleland seems to take offence about anyone saying that they aren't the best thing since sliced bread, It is well known that Moggy prefers to travel in Toyotas, but he has been around enough to have used both, if you've been around on the 4x4 section of the HUBB for 10 years then you would know this. Sending other HUBB members nasty PM's is below the belt not impressed buddy.

I do not see Moggy's posts as "aggressive" or "sniping" - he is simply answering the OP's question.

Ive been swearing at and skinning my knuckles on Solihulls finest for close to 35 years, anyone who thinks they are the "ultimate" 4x4 has a lot to learn and should probably have their cranial/rectal interface looked at by their GP - it might be a tad close.
I could make a very long list of Defender design faults off the top of my head, then there is the issue of the build quality, don't even get me started.......

Would I drive anything else ? NO.....that probably makes me a fool, but my friends have known that for a long time.....

I think tacr2man sums it up with "and I am not pushing any "ultimate "
manufacturer, mainly as I have yet to come across one . "

As Ive mentioned before to the motorcycle guys who visit the 4x4 section ( Im one of them as well)- lots of us here ride bikes, but I have to drive a 4x4 - when we wish to travel with families/pets or do charity work, we end up having to use our "cages" unfortunately.
We can also drive our "cages" into the Sahara with a 1500km range and 100 litres of water - try doing that on a bike without a support truck.

At the end of the day we are all here because we love to travel on 1 or more wheels, the number of wheels and the brand is really immaterial.

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Very interesting case for both vehicles here

http://youtu.be/vNcs0dcjyB8

I don't understand how the Defender climbs that initial challenge so much easier than the Landcruiser, is it down to the traction control or do they have limited slip diffs that made it keep going?

straight out of the box, the defender is the better off roader, always has been. Straight from the showroom, the 90 is probably the best off road vehicle you can buy in the sub 3.5ton passenger carrying vehicle class. Off road it's better than a Gwagon, despite it's lack of cross axle difflocks which are standard on the G wagon. Mostly it comes down to articulation, approach, departure and ramp breakover angles. I would say it's even better in standard trim than the 80 series landcruiser, which also had cross axle difflocks in the UK as standard.

My Hilux has traction control and I have to say, the level of mechanical grip astonished me, it really is very good, but I don't think traction control is as good as difflocks front and rear, but for people who don't understand how 4wd and difflocks work (which there are a suprising number of driving around in their 4wds!) it's a good idiot proof solution.

When it comes to off road, and hill ascents/decents in particular, I think the landrover he tested, which presumably has the puma engine, suffers from having what is, fundamentally, a car engine and so lacks good low down torque and engine braking. My experience with the td5 is also that it's an engine that needs to be revved to get the best out of it. It's totally gutless below 2000rpm and useless for towing (in discovery model anyway, which is the only TD5 I have driven). The td5 disco is the most hateful 4x4 I have ever driven!! The 300tdi and 200tdi were, in my opinion, far better and do carry a price premium over the td5 in the UK, especially in the expedition world.

But being the best off road truck is a very different ballgame to being the best expedition truck.

The differences between landrover and landcruiser can be traced right back to the design ethos of their first vehicles. When Maurice Wilkes designed the first landrover, he borrowed parts from the rover P4 parts bin. When Mr Toyota designed the first Landcruiser (ok, I know it wasn't actually a bloke called Mr Toyota!) They went to their bus and truck division for parts. That difference in the fundamental design continued all the way to the 80 series landcruiser (and arguably still exists in the HD 70 series today, I mean, 4.2litre straight six N/A diesel engine FFS!!). When I look at my 60, everything on it is huge, massively over-engineered. The gearbox and engine are from Hino. 4 men will struggle to lift the gearbox/transfer box. As a quick example, If you ever see a 60 (don't know about the 80) have a look at the system of coiled metal springs used to lift the bonnet, they're enormous!

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Yes the LC has a centre lock too.
I found when I went offroading when I had my 80 series Landcruiser with friends that had Landrovers that I could get up and over or through anything they could but 80% of the time I'd have to lock the centre+rear when they could get through by locking just the centre.

But why don't LR fit a rear locking diff to their Defender, is there some mechanical restriction that means it isn't possible or they just feel that it isn't required especially now that TC seems to work so well.

I think I might have said earlier in this thread that you never see a Landrover offroad here in UAE but I did actually see one on Friday in the desert a very new looking Defender 90 that was really struggling with the sand dunes, the owner seemed to think that the TC couldn't be turned off. Is that true? To its credit it did manage to make it back to firmer ground without actually getting stuck just progress was slow.

TC is a double edged aid, in the situation described in the video it works well on slow speed cross axle situations. as soon as you get in sand it is a liability, as it is applying the brakes constantly and stopping power being delivered to the wheels, which is not what you need. As standard you cannot turn off TC on Land Rovers unfortunately, but people have managed to make it switchable in Defenders.


In a LR product with terrain response, when you put it into 'sand' mode, it delivers max power with a different throttle map and reduces the effects of TC

There's a few factors in the video, in this particular hill climb, where the TLC gets cross axled it digs itself in and leaves holes, the Defender then takes the same line, it has a slightly longer wheel base (107 v 110) and is about 200 kgs lighter, the slightly longer wheelbase will mean it doesn't dig into exactly the same holes, better, more supple suspension travel means it finds traction better, less weight helps and in this instance the TC works well.

With TC, when you get wheel spin, you ADD throttle, increasing the difference in wheel speed (between wheels on the same axle) and the system activates more, braking the spinning wheel and sending torque through the open diff to the other wheel with traction.

Land Rover are very reluctant to put manually operated front and rear diff locks on their vehicles, mainly due to most people not having a clue about when/how to use them, they prefer using electronically operated aids that are controlled by the vehicles systems and implemented depending on traction levels. On Defenders this is only TC. On Discoveries/Range Rovers etc you can get electronic rear locking diffs, but they are controlled by terrain response and activated automatically when traction levels are low, same as the centre diff lock.

On a Defender the best combination is to have switchable TC and front and rear diff locks, if you need to steer on a climb you can only engage the rear diff lock and let the TC work up front and steer at the same time (obviously having the rear diff lock engaged will mean the vehicle does not want to turn as readily)


or just buy the TLC

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca