I know of people asked for money for stamping the Cpd and we personally got asked for stamping our passport (exit stamp) so it is definitely possible. The fact you never got asked for money I guess is your personal luck. Anyway I know after you spend probably more than 1500£ on a Cpd it's hard to acknowledge that in the end is easier without this useless paper. At least for Africa and other parts of the world. I recon in the future the rest of the countries that still obsessed with this Cpd (Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, Pakistan, Australia) and the others that are closed for bikers (China, Burma, Vietnam) will change their politics. Time will tell.
I started this topic with costs in mind, here in Romania a Cpd is 500E. So I discovered that actually is cheaper for me with a TIP (probably like for most of the people)
I'm sure a lot of people don't start to explore Africa because of the costs and risks involved in a Cpd but hopefully not anymore.

Cheers,
John

__________________
Crazy Oyibo - From Romania Into the World.
Part I - Africa Full Circle http://blog.intotheworld.eu

Definitely possible, but I was replying to the part where it said "asked for money at a lot of borders" which strongly implies that it would be a constant problem which it isn't. (Quite a change of tune by the way).

Us overlanders in Africa will always be asked for money in different ways as different officials fish, I was asked for money for a tv license in Nigeria for example, but with stamping carnets it seems well understood its for free - though some borders barely knew what to do with it coming down the west coast and sometimes people confuse an official charge as being for the carnet.

Some of how you get treated is also due to how you present yourself and your body language, along with who you are dealing with.

"Anyway I know after you spend probably more than 1500£ on a Cpd it's hard to acknowledge that in the end is easier without this useless paper."

I guess you mean that to be insulting as thats how it reads? A really lazy and untrue statement considering I laid out pluses and negatives above. You seem determined to be 'right' and better than others on this when its grey rather than black and white. And different with a 4x4 rather than a bike.

How long does a TIP last in each country?

- usually 30 days - then usually can be extended, sometimes only in the capital city though which can be a real pain.
- sometimes the length of your visa (or less!!), check before you leave the border the two are the same length if you not just passing through.
- sometimes 90 days like the road permit in Namibia.
- sometimes what you ask and pay for like in Botswana.

It varies quite a bit, so research and ask - from a previous trips:
Morocco: 6 months out of every 12 ok
Mori: whatever they scribble in your passport,
Mali: 30 days then extended in Bamako (only here!?) for another 90 days (free)
Somaliland: whatever I asked for
Ghana: Same as visa entry stamp, 2 months
Ethiopia: same as visa
etc

Another update!

I'm now in Cape Town, SA. So far no problems without carnet, on some countries they just don't ask, on others they ask and then make me a laissez-passage, or passavant, or any other kind of paper that lets me enter with my bike in the country. On some it is free, on others I have to pay from 2500CFA to 10000CFA, or 140 Namibian Dollars, very cheap compared to the price of the Carnet!

In 10 days I'll continue my trip up to Egypt... let's see how it goes!!!

Cheers!

thanks for the update Isaac! Be interested to hear how Egypt goes...
happy travels.

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bugsonmyboard.org
two wheeled wave hunting dispatches

Gratulation for reaching Capetown without hassle!

You was pretty quick for driving with a bike!

Surfy

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About Overlanding, Travelogues, Equipment
Trans-Africa over the west coast

I have been travelling for the past 2 years WITH a carnet on a UK registered bike (throughout Europe, Iran, Central Asia, India, Nepal, SE Asia) but it expired at the end of April while in Malawi. I decided not to get a new one because it is so expensive and I have used it so infrequently in the past 2 years. I entered Tanzania 2 weeks ago on a TIP, free of charge, without a problem (border near Karonga). Yesterday I entered Kenya from the Namanga border and received a TIP valid for 1 week at no charge however I did have to gently coerce the customs official as the he said the TIP is only available to East African community registered vehicles. I said our friend travelled through Taveta border 2 weeks ago with a TIP (of course I was making this up but referring to John's successful crossing in Taveta some time ago). He was a nice guy so let us through with little hesitation but emphasised it was only for 1 week. I am heading north to Egypt so will continue to update.

Cheers
Glenn

Thanks!

I drive non-stop from sun to sun!

And after 1 week here in Cape Town I am really willing to continue my trip!! In 6 days I'll start again riding... Mozambique, be ready, here I go!

I'm also waiting for Glenn report about Egypt...

Cheers!

According to MrWhite's experience in Africa are there similar experiences crossing borders of Iran, India and Pakistan?
Is a TIP in these countries an option as we're not planning to get a CPD for the simply reason that we want to keep on travelling, so the guarantee funded to het ADAC will not be refunded as of one the conditions is that the Motorcycle must be physically controlled atbthe end of a trip by an Customs Office within the EU
This is so in contradictoin of free travelling.

Really sorry if I offended you. It was not in my intention.
The thing is I clearly named this thread "Africa without a Carnet on a 2010 Tenere" but probably I should have mentioned very clear that this experience applies to bikes. I totally agree that other than bike it would be rather difficult and with a lot more hassle involved (but I'm confident to say not impossible). It's true that it's hard to generalise but some things are in black and white. Before starting this journey I did a lot of research and I was put off by the idea of CpD (basically impossible to get one in Romania, at least for me). Then I started finding some suggestions that people heard about others crossing without Cpd and I decided to take a gamble and follow my dream. 14 Months later I managed to do it and I put this info here only for other who will be in the same situation as me. I don't know if it's the RIGHT way but definitely is the way to follow your dream if you cannot get or afford a CpD.


Like roamingyak.org posted it depends but you can definitely extend one. For example in Nigeria I got 30 days (like the visa) but then I extended the visa in Calabar and at the customs office they told me to go at the border for the extension which I did and managed to get another 30 days.

From what I researched Iran is doable (but quite costy) and I never heard of people riding in Pakistan and India without one. For Iran coming from Turkey you have the deposit option (which Margus reported here a few years ago; he managed this in 2005 if I remember correctly) or the 'local" carnet which I guess is something like a scam, bribe, fishy stuff. For this option you'll deal with dubious people and it's possible in the end to get ripped off. The drawback of the deposit option is that you'll have to exit through the same border but as romnek72 posted earlier about egypt I think you can ask to get the refund at another border.

Cheers,
John

__________________
Crazy Oyibo - From Romania Into the World.
Part I - Africa Full Circle http://blog.intotheworld.eu

Thanks for posting here everyone - this thread contains the most useful information on the subject that I've found to date.

I'm thinking of doing a Carnet but leaving Egypt off, since the cost for me is 1500 USD without Egypt and 5000 USD without.

MrWhite or anyone else who has done the Egyptian Carnet at the border - any trouble getting your deposit back when exiting?

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bugsonmyboard.org
two wheeled wave hunting dispatches

Just a quick update. My trip across Africa started last April 13th, so far I've done Morocco, Mauritania, Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso and I'm now in Togo waiting for Nigerian visa. No CPD and no issues so far. Payed 2500 CFA in Senegal border for Laissez Passage, and 5000 CFA in Burkina and another 5000 CFA in Togo. Will update as my trip continues. And will keep reading for Egypt information!!!

HI All

I am about to plan a rip to Africa, and just read your posts.
Does anyone know if it is possible to get into egypt without a CDP when you arrive from Turkey?

Thanks!

/Kenneth

I met in person English biker(dentist)on 1200adv back in may 2013 on ferry from Hifa,Israel to Turkey,he was trying to go from Turkey to Egypt with out Carnet,Egypt said NO! and he had to turn around.
I cross to Egypt from Sudan with out Carnet back in December 24-2012.
I had to pay refundable $800usd deposit which I got back to the penny when I cross the border Taba Egypt into Israel.
I would strongly recommend, when you going back to Europe, go to Israel
NOT Egypt(port Said).
I took the same ferry(Sisa Shipping) from Hifa(Israel)to Turkey for only$370usd(I did some haggle with Tiran Agent)for one person one motorbike.