I second all the comments re Russia not being dangerous. The biggest hazard you're likely to encounter is predatory police, traffic and other! Make sure your paperwork is in order and don't break the speed limit.

Also true in my experience about people being a little nicer in the east

overlandcruiser.net

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Frankly I've never understood everyone's problem with Russian police. About 99% of the ones that I encounter are professional, if not friendly. If your paperwork is not in order or you break the speed limit, I'm not sure if I would consider it "predatory" for the police to seek to impose some kind of fine, etc.
Maybe its the fact that I can actually communicate with them, so know what they are actually asking, etc., rather than guessing that they are asking for major bribes...dunno.

Especially in Siberia, the police are quite friendly, and once I show them my passport, I almost never need to show any bike docs. In/around Moscow the police are rather strict but professional. The only place where I've encountered predatory cops is in Bashkiria (around Ufa).

I echo.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ilesmark I second all the comments re Russia not being dangerous. The biggest hazard you're likely to encounter is predatory police, traffic and other! Make sure your paperwork is in order and don't break the speed limit.

i KNEW that incendiary comment would ruffle feathers (hello again Knight of the Holy Graal and motoreiter!) so here's my justification.

I was caught breaking the law in Russia and Kaz 6 times (speeding or overtaking) and twice they just wanted to give me words of advice, but 4 times they wanted to get a bribe out of me and couldn't because I couldn't speak Russian. At least, if someone makes a gesture as if to take my licence away and then writes '500 pyb' on a piece of scrap paper I assume that's what's going on.

Also - on my first visit to Russia, I inadvertently fell foul of visa registration rules. I called the British Embassy in Moscow and they explained about the registration system. It was they who advised me to start keeping receipts from roadhouses / hotels / filling stations as an 'audit trail' to show where I'd been and on which days to prove I hadn't been in any 1 place long enough to need to re-register my visa.

A month later, I re-entered Russia through the Orsk crossing. This time I kept receipts right from the start AND registered my visa properly with a stamp on my immigation card. About 10 days before I left Russia, I was near Red Square with a German student when we both got stopped by the tourist police. I was able to prove with my wad of receipts that I hadn't been in Moscow for long enough to need to register my visa there (or indeed any other part of Russia); the German didn't have any proof and had to pay a 500 rouble bribe. He had already let on that he was getting a train out of Moscow that night, so the police said "well - you might well have proof that you've registered your visa, but we'll have to go back to your apartment to look for your passport and we wouldn't want that to make you miss your train."

That being said, all the police I encountered were professional in the sense of being civil. Even the ones who extracted the 500 roubles from the poor German were SOOOOO nice to him, shaking his hand afterwards as if they'd done him a favour.

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I've just ridden from the nearest Ukraine/Russia border crossing to Kursk, across to Ulan Ude without any trouble. The only difficulties have been navigating through cities, with no road signs in many of them I find that a nightmare. But the people are amazingly friendly, very helpful and delighted to see a foreign motorcyclist.

Now all I need to do is find the road from Ulan Ude down to the Mongolian border. The Cyrillic alphabet is a bitch, and I speak five words of Russian! That said I've made it nearly 4,000 miles across the country easy, if rather tiring.

Yeah, I guess we've had this conversation before...

As for the times you were speeding or overtaking, dunno, it's not like you have a "get out of jail" free card or something, surely you don't expect a smile and pat o the back every time you infringe some traffic law? Russians lose their license for six months for illegal passing, so I would say that 500 rubles is a real bargain.

As for the Red Square thing, those weren't traffic police, I don't have much contact with the "tourist police" (or whatever they are) so can't really comment other than to say that they are a different organization.

Also, I believe that Russian law has recently changed so that police no longer have the right to fine foreigners for registration issues (the immigration authorities have to deal with it), the change was supposedly made to eliminate this very problem. So in future don't let any cops give you a hard time for improper registration, etc. Maybe Tony P or somebody could confirm this?

As you say - Милйция (civil police), not ДПС (roads police).

They used to continually patrol Red Square checking tourists documents. I have not been there since my first visits years ago.

I believe you are right about changes in responsibility and fines. I have heard that elswhere.

Processes and procedures are very gradualy being modernised.

One useful recent change is the need to Register has been extended from 3 to 7 working days (i.e don't count weekends and public holidays).

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Yes, Russia is dangerous. The main fear is that you will be fed too much excellent food and get fat, then there's the possibility that someone will take you home and get you drunk. Also you may be crushed in a bear hug by yet another friendly Russian.
Traffic cops are twats though.

Got pulled in Germany a while back, had my 'new keepers supplement as my V5 wasn't back from DVLA. apparently not valid in germany. police cut off my number plates and wouldn't allow the vehicle out of the service station they had pulled me into. Spent the night in the vehicle before walking 18km to the nearest town to register the vehicle on german plates and obtain temporary german registration and insurance.

wish they had taken a bribe!!!!!

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I have been touring southern Russia end of June on the road to Central Asia and also when going back to Italy, so twice in less than one month: Ukrainian border to Elista to Astrakhan, then Astrakhan to Volgograd to Ukrainian border.
I've found nobody but good people that have always been wanting to help me as much as they could in any situation I found myself.
For example, I got lost in three different cities (I had no GPS and there was lack of road signs) and in all these moments I found somebody that offered me to drive me out of town putting me in the right direction.

If it comes to DPS, I was pulled over just outside Elista by the traffic police only to talk a bit and have a pic together, and many other policemen showed appreciation to my motorcycle when passing in front of them (many of them, especially in the Volgograd region, thumbed up at my bike with big smiles as I rode in front of them).
I was fined on the road between Volgograd and the Ukrainian border by DPS because I was riding at 111 km/h with limit of 60: I could not claim, they were right, so I paid the 2000 rubles fine without discussing because the "correct" amount (I think you understand what I mean...) would have been muuuuuuuch more and I was wrong. I was back on the road in less than 10 minutes.

So, at the end, I must confirm the idea that I had during my first very small Russian trip of 2009 (Estonia to St. Petersburg then to Finland): Russians are great people, and their Police is anything but predatory.
I look forward to enter again that fantastic Country.

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Then you have no cause to complain or wrongly besmirch Russia and 'warn' others of persistant Police corruption.



The taking the Licence away gesture is indicating the Proper Legal Way of doing it.

You want to do things properly and stuff the Road Police Officer?

Fine. Here's how it works-

They keep the Licence and give you a receipt for it and a Payment Spravka to take (on foot) and pay directly into the Government's Bank Account at any Sberbank branch when it is open (could be many miles away).
Unless there is another person with you to drive/ride the vehicle for you it stays where it is at the roadside until you get your licence back.

When the payment notification goes through the Bank system and reaches the local Police Office (this can take weeks!) you can go and get your Licence back and return to your vehicle at the roadside and drive away in what's left of it.

All this while you cannot drive/ride as they have your Licence. (Thats why I have 2 or more IDPs and only produce one of them - never my actual 'home' Licence)

I know which process I prefer - if I have been caught doing wrong.

There is no animosity in all this - it is an emotionless everyday event. Hence the handshakes, smiles and good wishes for your journey.
Once (near Ufa of course!) after such an encounter we stopped the night in a motel/cafe and in walked the same Police guys and had a meal (on our money) and after came over for a chat and with us.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony P The taking the Licence away gesture is indicating the Proper Legal Way of doing it. .

Yes, I was aware of the confiscation of licence procedure, and that they were trying to get me to pay 500 roubles to bypass this.

Tony - from the discussions you and I have had previously both in person and online about MOTs / SORN for vehicles outside the UK etc etc, I have gained an impression of someone who doesn't have much time for bureaucratic regulations, or for the heavy-handed enforcement of them.

My perception of much of the traffic enforcement in Russia was that it was more about catching people out for the smallest thing and using it as an excuse to extract money, as opposed to genuine concern for road safety. Rather like speed cameras in the UK, which I dare say you have a negative view of as well (just like me!) Ditto for the scene I witnessed near Red Square, albeit one that would not happen today given the change in rules.

I believe I made myself clear in my first entry on this thread that you don't have to worry if you obey the rules. Just that you need to obey them to the letter.

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Pretty good offer. You were lucky it was only 500 initially. By far your cheapest option, having self-admittedly broken the rules. A no-brainer!

Yes. I do resent being controlled unreasonably and try to explore as far as possible the rules, their boundries and enforcement. Having made myself as aware of them as possible it is purely my personal choice if I decide to then step outside them. If I do and it backfires on me I would not 'blanket criticise' the Country or even its enforcers, no matter how dubious their motives may appear.
I test inconsistancies and anomolies but the ultimate right of enforcement its theirs and I chose to be in their Country.
I find Russia is far less controlled and monitored than UK. I enjoy the far greater freedom here. You are responsible for yourself.

AGREED. But that's the way it is.
Right now the ДПС are outside our flat, sitting in their car, smoking and chating on phones and totally ignoring cars and motos roaring past, in the darkness of a Moscow summer night, at up to 100mph, overtaking, undertaking and weaving across all 4 lanes in their direction (being on pavements is not unknown at times). But if a wheel goes over the central solid white line, or a prohibited turn is made, the valiant ДПС courageously spring into action.
But that is the system I chose to live under. Part of the package.

In RUS, these guys are not corrupt liars. Unlike many instances of law enforcement elsewhere (sadly including the UK at times), they don't fabricate stories to 'get you' - but maybe they intentionally patrol and exploit contentious, ambiguous situations. But they are following their instructions and the rules. They only try it on with people who have already broken the rules by their own actions or documentation.

Don't break the rules and there will be absolutely no problem. It is such a pity that the people get the wrong impression based on heresay of wrong understanding.

And don't think I am having a pop at you Mark - I am not.
I'll be back in August so we can continue the converstaion over a pint or two, without boring everyone here!

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You're on! PM me when you're back.

But - just for the record - - I never blanket criticised the whole country.

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No one suggested you did.

But someone did - to the Original Poster who started this thread.
My posts are with that in mind.

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